M5e3438

Hi all,

My insurance prohibits; racing, rallies, speedtrials, pacemaking, timetrials. Does this mean I am not insured for the Ring? What do those of you who go to the Ring do about insurance? I am going for the "Fahrerlehrgang" next week so I guess I should know the score. According to the Fahrerlehrgang site as one is not `racing` then your domestic insurance will be valid. Anyone agree/disagree?

Cheers

Frank

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MY BUD

As far as I knew the Nurburgring is a public toll road so normal insurance applies.

MIKE.

BenS

Dear Frank,

"Ring" insurance is always a bit of a grey area. Mike is correct that it is technically a public toll road and therefore your insurance should cover it. However, if you were to crash and make a claim, I would expect a that your insurance might not give in easily! More and more companies are excluding "one way toll roads." (i.e. the Ring)

My advice: Read small print carefully. Do your best to avoid having to make a claim. DO NOT phone your insurance company for clarification and peace of mind.... they will just tell you (officially) that you are not covered. If you are still feeling very anxious, spend lots of money and get specialist track insurance.

Have fun. I am told the course that you are doing is suppsed to be brilliant!

Ben

DaveW

Frank,

2 of my friends will be on the course next week as well, so please introduce yourself as a mate of Dave with the Bi-Turbo and M3.

Phil Gardner will have a Renault Spider - I know it's not a BMW but he's excused as being an ex-instructor at the Ring for Yamaha, as well as being quite well known for his R1NGA vehicles that have lapped there over the years. He's a good guy to know; very knowledgable. Fast and smooth.

Tom will have a track prepared Gulf coloured E36 M3. It's funny to think he used to come with us in his pushchair when we first started some 20 years ago... Young and Mad but know's his way around.

Insurance is a tricky area. IF you can't see the Ring is excluded - DON'T ASK.

CG-LOCK - Get One, Use One.

If you speak to Phil when you're there, he will tell you about his brother's accident a few years ago in an E46 M3 which spun and rolled at Quiddelbacher Höhe in the wet, landing upside down on the outside of the track with the Armco cutting through the roof and embedding itself in the dashboard (training is important therefore)!

His insurance company picked up the tab which included Armco, New Car, Helicopter Ambulance, Medical and Recovery Fees exceeded £80k

He survived and made a full recovery which we put down to a CG-Lock seatbelt device which held him in his seat. His passenger (Class 1 Police Driver) also had one and didn't even have a scratch, so if you have one use it, if you don't, see if you can get one.

You can read Chas' accident on the CG-Lock web site under testimonials

Crash Survivors - CG-Lock EU - enhancing safety and enjoyment of your vehicle

Cheers and have fun! Didn't mean to make you nervous by the way.

Dave.

M5e3438

DaveW

Thanks I'll look out for those guys.
I'm taking my youngest brother as a passenger and have promised to return him to his wife and kids in one piece so will take it easy.

Cheers,

Frank

Jon Baker

More often that not these days there are specific exclusions from the Nordschliefe within your policy, and it may not be in the same place as the other exclusions you have mentioned.

I would scour your policy with a fine toothcomb before heading out onto the track.

My policy does not insure me when at the Ring, and in a certain way I like this, it makes me back off just a little and not take unnecessary risks.

Have fun, a number of us have just got back from a very hot weekend up there and had a blast!!

AndrewBailey

Lucky man to do the course. I wanted to sign up but my insurance specifically excludes the Nuburgring.

Check the statement of facts and most importantly the certificate of insurance. The policy document should also be checked line by line.

If the wording anywhere says "Excludes" and then mentions use on un-restricted toll roads or the "Nordschleife"then you have a big problem as you are not covered.

If it doesn't then look for wording regarding 'rallying' as they might use that clause given the nature of the event if you have an accident.

Check whether you have to declare foreign usage as that is another way of denying cover if you haven't informed them.

As for not asking, that is never a good idea as they will say that you did not declare a material fact and therefore your insurance is invalid.

Who is your insurance with?

BTW I work for a large insurance company and almost all personal policies exclude the Nurburgring now, but not many commercial policies do as it is unlikely you will take a Transit van round. Top Gear notwithstanding....

IvanDias

Short answer:

You are not insured on the Ring for damage to your car with 95%+ of (british) comprehensive insurance policies. Most English people drive on it regardless.



Longer answer:

The vast majority of insurers now list and exclude in their policy Terms and Conditions the terms variously "Nurburgring", "Nordschleife", "one way derestricted toll roads in Europe/Germany" or similar.

As others have posted, read the exclusions and don't call the insurers to "clarify" as they will say no immediately and enough calls will provoke that particular company to excluded them in next years T&Cs.

Technically the Ring is a two lane, one way toll road, partly derestricted (there's a speed limit sign over the Breidscheid bridge), so German road law applies.

As it's a public road under German law and as insurers cannot legally invalidate cover on specific roads, this means that should you have an accident where another car is smashed due to your fault or someone other than you is injured (German police normally attend all Ring smacks where more than one car is involved or anyone is hurt), the insurers are obliged to pay out to the third person no matter what the policy indicates.

They cannot avoid this legally, but as their T&Cs specifically excluded the Ring for what it is, they will then try and claim the costs back from you. That is, the costs they've paid to the other party, don't think that you're getting paid for your own car or the Armco bill!!

(Bearable if you write off someone else's £1000 DRT but not happy for the guy in the XKR Jag a couple of months ago who dropped oil and collected four or so bikes and a real GT2. That's got to be £100K of bill to be paid somehow! )





Obviously people have got away with it before, either finding a company whose lax policy doesn't have the exclusions or managing to persuade the Bongard to say it happened "near Adenau village" or similar. You will hear many stories on Pistonheads and Northloop.co.uk to this effect.




If as per "normal", your insurance policy does exclude the 'Ring, be wary of buying special insurance for trackdays or the Nurburgring by name. It has been noted that the majority of these indemnify you against third party claims, which means again that anything you hit or injure gets sorted out, but these insurances do not cover your actual car for repairs/writeoff.




So, basically nearly everyone on the Nurburgring as far as the English go are uninsured for their own car's repair or the Armco bill.

Therefore drive slowly and keep yours and your experienced 'Ring passenger's eyes on the mirrors. Don't get road rage when a local guy in a 100bhp car goes past you like Seabiscuit and watch out for bikers braking way before a car needs to once you're getting faster.

Don't take a car you cannot afford to lose. This especially applies if you've an expensive new car with lease payments and were planning to give it back in two years as you don't have the balloon payment at the end!

With an E34, they're only worth £1000 to £10,000 now, so it's not so bad if you have to walk home.



Regards

Ivan

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DaveW

Frank,

How did you get on?

Dave.

richardbaxter

The BMW driver training course is magnificent I did the course in 2001 when there was unfortunately a fatality by one of the entrants in a 3 series convertible this place needs lots of respect but who am I to mention the obvious.

Although this years course is now run the best way to gain cover is to pay for insurance to a certain limit i.e. one of the companies who will pay out to an agreed ceiling for a set premium.

As most posts have mentioned UK drivers do not bother myself included, and just like motor racing one gambles on the hope that the worst does not happen and if it does the bill could be unpleasant.

Still this creates the right sort of attitude to be sensible after all there are no championships to be won or a name to be made by overdriving this fabulous circuit.

The best advice's I have received on the Nordschleiffe is 'go in no faster than you can come out' and 'do not blindly follow another'!

Simonal

Sound advice Richard

Also after a lap do not drive straight into the car park especially if it is hot. Go for a couple of minutes drive the let the car come back to normal tempratures otherwise you may well warp the brakes and also the heat soak is not great for the car. Especially if you just go to the car park and park the car.

But also go round in your time and look in your mirrors and move to the right when somethign faster comes past you

Oh and one more thing .....have fun.

vadas1

As there is very often quite a wait just to get off the circuit I've found it helpful once past the gantry to go to the right, slow to 80 ish, put the car in nuetral and coast to the exit. Even if you are planning another lap immediately this bit of cooling is very helpful.



ralph (vadas1)

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M5e3438

Hi Dave,

Had a fantastic time and got the old girl back in one piece which was a relief. Phil and Tom were top blokes and it was a pleasure to spend time with them. As you probably know Tom won a prize for the best assessed lap from our group for the "newcomers". As for my score the less said the better! The course is a great and safe way to explore the course with expert guidance and from knowing nothing about the Nordschleife I now know next to nothing! I really had no idea of the scale of the challenge of this course and was pretty cautious not to vanish into Adenauer Forest. Just a few incidents like coming across a biker in the middle of the road who had just overtaken us (he survived) and a Lotus that went up in a huge fireball. Apart from the first morning when it rained we had brilliant weather for the duration. I had my youngest brother with me gving me good advice on hitting the white dots so that made progress easier. I think the first time gives you a taster but there is so much to learn that I may have to book up for next years. We'll see. All in all a fantastic experience.

Frank

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