Baddie

I have now had my second 3.8 E34 M5 for 5 days, and I'm still so happy, I just can't get out of it. My last one was an LE 44/50, but this 5 speed seems spot on for UK roads, which is good as I had an outright ban in the 6 speed!

But how else can I run a handbuilt car that sounds like a racer, goes like a Ferrari, has genuine race pedigree, and has handling that makes you feel like a hero? In two years in all weathers my last one was the most trustworthy and best driving car I've ever steered. The throttle travel, and LSD, your brain is the ESP, the broadsides, the way the infra-base exhaust burble resonates windows of nearby houses and sets off Passat car alarms in particular!

I have covered nearly 1000 miles in it in 5 days and sadly realise I need new front shocks (sweet mother the price has changed in the 2 and a half years since I sold my last one) and the gearbox is slightly noisy as well. I need to consider all the options available on the sus front as I have a moral objection to paying £800 for dampers on a car that's been out of production for 13 years. I tried a Dinan car whilst looking for mine, but wanted to preserve some ride comfort to keep the wife onside? Any suggestions? Want to try those rebuilt shocks, how much are they? Even buying new 3.6 legs from BMW doesn't seem to be an option as the b*****s seem to have changed some fittings that mean you have to buy hubs, brakes etc. But this is my only car and it's not getting sold this time.

Alan Archer

For a Gemany four door Ferrari,
occaisionally we have to pay Ferrari prices for
repairs.....

Just be thankful that an oil filter is less than £10 !!!


Alan.

__________________
///M5 the only substitute for capacity is even greater capacity...

Baddie

I quite understand that we have chosen to pay for quality, and we get what we pay for. It's not the cost of new EDC as much as the scale of the recent increases that leaves me feeling a bit stunned - even the BMW guy nearly fell over when he saw the price!

It is reasonable though to consider likely cost over a 5 year period especially as EDC seem to still be on the rise in cost, and there may even be options that are perhaps superior to EDC in performance as well. And if the car has been converted once to accept conventional dampers, even very high quality replacements become economical - and that just leaves more money to spend on petrol!

farrell

Those rebuilt dampers are not available...yet.
None of the fronts have done any respectable mileage that I would consider
a durable option to be able to present to a customer as viable.
( I hope this will change over time)

Currently, this means that if a Customer insists on them being fitted when available,
& the worst happens ( premature failure within 12 months as per BMW warranty)
the cost of them to be removed & another damper refitted etc is at the customers
cost.
Anyone who has fitted EDC dampers will understand that they are beyond the remit of many owners.
It's not just the dampers that require attention either.
Spring & Top mount, bearing shield for top mount, gland nut, top & bottom spring pan inserts, dust bellows,
wheel bearing dust shield & potential wheel brg if worst happens, brake disc shield if rotten
around the 3 M6 fasteners..
(Check out the cost of a front wheel bearing as a pair is a small mortgage)

Cost of conversion to conventional dampers is not a cheap walk in the park either.

EDC still provides unmatched flexiblility..at a cost

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Baddie

Thank you very much for the update Farrell. My need for shocks is reasonably urgent, and I'm just considering the options. I may keep EDC yet, or even return to it in the future, though at the current rate of cost increase I don't know.

I'm waiting for Bird's to come back with a quote to fit bilsteins but get the impression it would be c.£2k all round with top mounts (about the cost of EDC at one end), and looking at other options. KW's and Ground Control look like reasonable options, though Ground Control look more like race car equipment - not much visible rubber insulation at the tops of the struts. KW look like quality items, and seem to be highly rated at about £1500 all round. Don't know how much/long to fit, but if done thoroughly would be able to strike suspension completely off the list for a few years. I had a ride in a Powerflex/Dinan car and felt it was fair bit harsher than the standard set up.

My BMW dealer has changed to Sytner ownership, and is not helpful. They tell me 3.6 struts won't fit the 3.8 car without changing brakes/hub etc. I was interested in the member who fitted 540i Sport kit, but would worry about changing the geometry - the M5's road behaviour and steering is so special.

Sorry, becomming yet another suspension thread...

I would be grateful for any comments/experiences.

If I go conventional the front EDC units will be donated to the rebuild boys, and the working rears will be sold here if they pass inspection (otherwise rebuild team).

bubba966

A friend of mine has a Dinan Stage 1/Bilstein/SLS Delete suspension on his US '93 M5. I drove it after he'd had the suspension installed (had about 12 miles on the suspension) and felt that it was only slightly stiffer than stock, but it certainly handled better than stock.

He had stock bushes on it though. And from speaking to a local owner of another M-Sport (which has the Nurburgring EDC suspension) that fitted just the poly thrust bushings he felt those were much too stiff. And Powerflex makes a good number of the bushes in poly. So I'd bet most of the stiffness you experienced in that Powerflex/Dinan setup was the Powerflex equipment.

Still, I'd much rather drive my car with the Nurburgring EDC setup than the Dinan stage 1 setup. Love the EDC, just not the cost of EDC replacements...

farrell

Hello
I am nothing to do with rebuilds of dampers.
I run a company that services, tunes & repairs //M vehicles & am one
of the Independants within the independants sticky.

You will find some very good people in there.

I take the view as an owner of a 3.8 & someone that works for people
who love these cars, that fitting parts like EDC dampers is not a five min
Job.
If wheel bearings are to be spared, try 8 odd hours per axle with the care & attention reqd to
make a good job of it.

That money you have to pay for fitment & paying once for the job to be done
right is all you want to do.
To pay to have parts fitted, have the parts fail prematurely, & then have to pay
to have replacements fitted at the customers cost starts stacking up the costs.
Once the parts are proven durable to new parts, then its feasible.
Otherwise, rebuilt parts remain within the domain of the mechanical enthusiast
who may be prepared to fit & remove dampers at his own time cost.
I hope we have a durable alternative to EDC dampers soon.
It will be a relief to all concerned as the cost of new parts is involves a
ridiculous profit ratio for BMW.

The pics are of a customers car that had a complete front axle of EDC & associated parts
plus roll bar bushes, upper & lower control arms & vertical stab links.
Car has 88k miles on the clock from new.
The whole system was failed & each part changed removed a clonk , donk or
shimmy from the system.
Most of the faults with unsprung parts were diagnosed from test drive.

Farrell

Baddie

Hi Mr Farrell
I have read many of the threads on here and I know that you are an owner, a massively respected opinion, as well as the proprietor of a much-loved independent outfit that really cares for these cars, and as a newbie I don't mind admitting feeling a bit awed when you posted a repsonse to my queries.

I am not trying to cut financial corners with the car, because in my line of work I also subscribe to "do it right, do it once". That's also why I'm quite keen to put the suspension issue to bed for a few years while I sort out other things that will no doubt crop up. I had Nurburgring on my last car and loved the compromises it provided, but I believe you have changed your front EDC 4 times (in 7 years?). I can't face either the risk of investment in a part that clearly has a quality issue or running a car where the system is working sub-optimally. It's interesting that the car you've pictured had so little mileage - even buying the more expensive cars does not preclude suspension issues. I'm not sure Bird's represents a solution though, as they get some negative feedback, and re-use the old struts which they say can be bent.

However, if I do go non-EDC I want to contribute to the M5 community, and will donate the dampers for solenoids & rod spares as well as providing feedback on my experiences.

Hi Bubba
Thanks for sharing your experiences of bushings. That's as I suspected. No powerflex for me - might not sit well with the wife's stomach!

farrell

Hi
Don't be in awe.
Normal bloke that love these cars
That waffle's too much
And has the inter-personal skills that make Vlad the Impaler look
like a candidate for the Nobel peace prize for humanitarian contribution.

I knew you were not looking for shortcuts.
Just a sound economic solution.
You are not alone.
We all have to pay the same prices.

The car I am looking after for the next owner ( give or take 50 yrs from now)
is on its third pair of front dampers from new & second pair of rears.
I suppose with hindsight that is not too terrible for 183k miles.
Just the cost of EDC Plus associated EDC strut parts.

You're on your second old girl so I think you know the score.
These cars reward when the car works as one.
They are just the greatest.

Farrell

Alan Archer

Darren,


just to clarify (as I can see how recently you've been playing
with new springs.. )

What's the official BMW price per front leg / rear leg ?
I'm starting a piggy bank fund.


Alan.

__________________
///M5 the only substitute for capacity is even greater capacity...

erikm54life

Hi Alan !

I've already started my fund.......have about 180 pounds in it !
.......only 1820pounds to go.......see you there m8!

farrell

Hi Alan
The springs as fitted went on the 1st week in Dec 07.
(2k miles ago)
New across the axle as was every single part of the strut
bar one n/s wheel bearing.
Car came back for extra suspension work to links & bushes ( original)
I diagnosed a faulty EDC damper with 1,500 miles from new.

The bare strut = £790 plus VAT.
You wil get about 10-12 %