E34 M5 - 400bhp - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

richardbaxter · 13th March 2008, 00:08

Has anyone else heard about the 408 bhp M5 specials that were produced by Motorsport?

The story goes that the factory produced 2 or 3 cars (circa 1993 model) with breathed on motors for the likes of the touring car drivers and Paul Roesche.

I spoke to someone in Motorsport a few years back who confirmed this but would not divulge the specification or provide chassis no's.

Then a friend of mine who unfortunately is no longer with us heard that one of these cars was purchased by a wealthy guy who lived on the south coast and for enjoyment drove sight seeing coaches across Europe.

I tried to track him down but this came to nought, I even contacted the service departments of the main dealers in the area to see if this car had ever received servicing/repairs by them but this showed no result. It was said at the time that he used to have the car serviced in Munich but that seems a hell of a long way to go!

It would certainly be a nice power to weight ratio, I believe it was acheived by trick cams better breathing and a boyesen exhaust.

t651 · 13th March 2008, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardbaxter

Has anyone else heard about the 408 bhp M5 specials that were produced by Motorsport?

The story goes that the factory produced 2 or 3 cars (circa 1993 model) with breathed on motors for the likes of the touring car drivers and Paul Roesche.

I spoke to someone in Motorsport a few years back who confirmed this but would not divulge the specification or provide chassis no's.

Then a friend of mine who unfortunately is no longer with us heard that one of these cars was purchased by a wealthy guy who lived on the south coast and for enjoyment drove sight seeing coaches across Europe.

I tried to track him down but this came to nought, I even contacted the service departments of the main dealers in the area to see if this car had ever received servicing/repairs by them but this showed no result. It was said at the time that he used to have the car serviced in Munich but that seems a hell of a long way to go!

It would certainly be a nice power to weight ratio, I believe it was acheived by trick cams better breathing and a boyesen exhaust.

I heard that myth too. But what I heard was they made 368 bhp and were properly hand built motors with larger cams etc.

Special order only as far as i know. I was offered one a few years ago, but the price they guy wanted was equal to a S62 at the time.

M5touring reg · 13th March 2008, 16:42

Richard@
Yes, I am aware of these cars ( surprised ?

They are one of the ( now) only few still uncovered secrets of the E34 M5-production. There is a M5touring-owner 'out there' who was involved in -motor-racing - ( Italy ) in those days who can confirm that these cars do in fact exist and who they were (supposedly) made for ( or given to ). The engine - 400 ECE / 408 DIN - bhp was developed by ///M in co-operation with ALPINA to be used in the German DTM-racing series against the -in those days- strong going AUDI V8s. As we know now ///M-motorsport did not go through with this project. A few engines were however build. One final evidence that all this is in fact NOT a myth or rumours was revealed when the build specifications of one E34 M5 were found
documenting that this car in fact had a factory-power-increased engine with
400 ECE/408 DIN bhp. VIN is a known but kept secret

(at least until the guys from the M5-Limo-register will see this thread

-
These cars are one of the last pending -E34 M5-research-projects- I am working on and if anybody has an input to give and share this would of course be most welcome.

-
PS: I believe you can find some more on this by using the -search- function.

M5touring reg · 13th March 2008, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by t651

I heard that myth too. But what I heard was they made 368 bhp and were properly hand built motors with larger cams etc.

Special order only as far as i know. I was offered one a few years ago, but the price they guy wanted was equal to a S62 at the time.

-
Hi there 'down under'

368 bhp ( instead of 347 DIN bhp standard power - 255 kw) can be achieved by limited measures of motor tuning whereas - 408 bhp DIN - requires ever so much more effort and a HUGE bank-account...........

408 bhp from a -straight six- is poor motorsport

-
PS: while on the subject > can you still fix me a ticket for sat/sunday ?
if I leave tomorrow morning I just might be able to make it......

IvanDias · 13th March 2008, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by M5touring reg

-
408 bhp DIN - requires ever so much more effort

You're not kidding. If capacity is retained at 3.8 litres, that's requiring 107bhp/litre output from a very old design of n/a engine.

If they increased the capacity to 3.9 as Dinan did with their stroker, then it drops to 104bhp/l, but this is an increase of stroke not bore, as the bore is already tight to margins on this engine. Increasing the stroke is not the ideal method of power increase on a hi-revving racing engine. I wonder if they went even higher on bore and stroke, lightened conrods and pistons, even more compression. Liners? Add mad cams and the engine in a 4.0 or 4.1 litre configuration could put out 408bhp and last 100k+ but I'd personally be wincing every time I started it cold or hit the limiter!!

Obviously and engine like that would need a higher performance oil perhaps. Has anyone tried the TWS 10w60 in these cars? lolz...

Would love to hear a video of one on full chat or a driveby. If you do visit these cars one day, please take a camcorder!!

Regards
Ivan

Mmm-Five · 13th March 2008, 17:30

They probably had some parts left over from the M1 Procars - didn't they have 700bhp or something?

hertfordshire1 · 13th March 2008, 18:01

wow, everyday's a school day...

good thread.

Steve

IvanDias · 13th March 2008, 19:00

Yes, up to 850Bhp, but they were they were turbocharged. Lower compression and oodles of boost. Not so good for longevity!

Regards

Ivan

Lantz · 13th March 2008, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanDias

Obviously and engine like that would need a higher performance oil perhaps. Has anyone tried the TWS 10w60 in these cars? lolz...

LOL, indeed!

Lantz

richardbaxter · 14th March 2008, 01:33

karl - great to hear you are working on this, if anyone can find out then you are the one...