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E34 M5 - 400bhp

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230K views 353 replies 90 participants last post by  para_one  
R
#1 · (Edited)
Has anyone else heard about the 408 bhp M5 specials that were produced by Motorsport?

The story goes that the factory produced 2 or 3 cars (circa 1993 model) with breathed on motors for the likes of the touring car drivers and Paul Roesche.

I spoke to someone in Motorsport a few years back who confirmed this but would not divulge the specification or provide chassis no's.

Then a friend of mine who unfortunately is no longer with us heard that one of these cars was purchased by a wealthy guy who lived on the south coast and for enjoyment drove sight seeing coaches across Europe.

I tried to track him down but this came to nought, I even contacted the service departments of the main dealers in the area to see if this car had ever received servicing/repairs by them but this showed no result. It was said at the time that he used to have the car serviced in Munich but that seems a hell of a long way to go!

It would certainly be a nice power to weight ratio, I believe it was acheived by trick cams better breathing and a boyesen exhaust.
 
M
#4 ·
-
Hi there 'down under';)
368 bhp ( instead of 347 DIN bhp standard power - 255 kw) can be achieved by limited measures of motor tuning whereas - 408 bhp DIN - requires ever so much more effort and a HUGE bank-account...........:cheers::M5launch:
408 bhp from a -straight six- is poor motorsport :applause::applause:
-
PS: while on the subject > can you still fix me a ticket for sat/sunday ?
if I leave tomorrow morning I just might be able to make it......:15::15:
 
M
#3 ·
Richard@
Yes, I am aware of these cars ( surprised ? ;)
They are one of the ( now) only few still uncovered secrets of the E34 M5-production. There is a M5touring-owner 'out there' who was involved in -motor-racing - ( Italy ) in those days who can confirm that these cars do in fact exist and who they were (supposedly) made for ( or given to ). The engine - 400 ECE / 408 DIN - bhp was developed by ///M in co-operation with ALPINA to be used in the German DTM-racing series against the -in those days- strong going AUDI V8s. As we know now ///M-motorsport did not go through with this project. A few engines were however build. One final evidence that all this is in fact NOT a myth or rumours was revealed when the build specifications of one E34 M5 were found
documenting that this car in fact had a factory-power-increased engine with
400 ECE/408 DIN bhp. VIN is a known but kept secret:hihi:
(at least until the guys from the M5-Limo-register will see this thread:hihi::hihi:;)
-
These cars are one of the last pending -E34 M5-research-projects- I am working on and if anybody has an input to give and share this would of course be most welcome.:M5thumbs:
-
PS: I believe you can find some more on this by using the -search- function.
 
M
#17 ·
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Richard@
Thanks for the flowers, mate ;)
I'll do my very best BUT as you know my time is - very - limited and things
are therefore moving slow - lately -.
So, if someone will make an effort and contact -
Mehboob Hamza Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates -to find out some more
details about his car that would be of great help.:M5launch:
 
M
#12 ·
Did nobody else use the -search- function ?
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5668&highlight=408+bhp+E34
-
could this be one of the cars we are looking for ???:dunno:
-
the -Chris Wagner- car was discussed in this forum some years ago -
that car was a -replica- and not one of the -original- cars, the car had a
standard-engine but was then fitted with an engine build after the -408 bhp-
engine specifications - that guy had a -very- close relationship to the ///M-GmbH - rumours have it that this car was later build back to -standard- again
and if it is not wrecked it might still be out there -
-
still, that car in -Dubai- sounds -interesting indeed- (as money is no issue in that region, anything is possible, as ///M-GmbH of course still knows how to build such an engine, so perhaps, as long as you pay for it you might get one)
= or could this be one of the original cars ?????? that would be a -scoop- indeed:cheers:
 
#13 · (Edited)
Kalle,

I remember Chris and his car. Chris did confirm somewhere in 2000 that has 408PS engine died and was rebuild to 347PS specification. He soon after sold the car, I believe the asking price was 45k DM, or 22k5 Euro. I have his original Email stored somewhere. I also know that he did not provide ab in depth technical description as the 408PS specification was confidential.

But I wouldn't worry about Christian his car. It was a well used daily driver and may have reached condition 3-4 already in 2000. Far more delictable is Thomas Heissig's ex-1995 M5-limo with a changed differential and large Movit 380mm/323mm brakes. I know that he sold that car in spring 2001 for somewhere between 20k and 25k Euro. Unfortunatelly that car has been exported to the US where it was registered in Georgia. At that time, it was a good condition 1-2 car and I hope it still is.
 
J
#14 · (Edited)
The information that I have on Chris Wagner's car is:

- Engine is 3.8 litres, producing 300 KW (408 HP) !!!
- 3795 cc standard block, with fine polished (all borings) crankshaft weight reduced approx. 5 kg.
- Fine-balanced MAHLE special (Helmut Wahl) pistons from forged aluminium, weight reduced
- Oil cooled cylinder head
- Connecting rod weight reduced approx. 160 g, fine-balanced
- Cam duration 284°
- Compression Ratio: 11.4:1
- Color is Daytonaviolett
- Wheels and tyres: 245/45 ZR 18 (8" and 9" x 18")
- Brakes are AP-Racing CP5555 6-piston, brake disk 334 x 34 mm
- Suspension mods include KONI Shock absorbers and Eibach & Willms springs
- Exhaust System is Special (Boysen) -confidential-
- Rear axle: 3.91 ratio, 40% limited slip differential with a (special), ALPINA cooling system
- Gear ratios are calculated from ALPINA -confidential-
- Motronic optimized for the mechanical improvements listed above, RPM-limit lifted to approx. 7850 rpm.
 
M
#15 ·
raqymondw@
yes, I am aware of the destiny of -Chris Wagner's - car ;)
even if it was still alive is has now a standard engine again and -never was-
one of the -factory 408 bhp-car- we are looking for anyway -:typing:
-
jrobbo@
that is correct for the -Chris Wagner- engine-replica-car :M5thumbs:
-
:M5launch:
 
S
#16 ·
- Suspension mods include KONI Shock absorbers and Eibach & Willms springs
Click to expand...
:hihi: Glad to see Motorsport and myself have the same vision :hihi:

This is indeed interesting, but I never knew it to be more than rumours.

I can imagine the engine in the Procars being completely different, a Turbo engine which loses its Turbo is always gonna make -less- power than the original engine it was based on.

I'd just like to know what M has done to keep the car driveable. With no bore increase and 284' cams, I doubt the low-down torque has raised.

If they still utilise the same airbox system (which I doubt) I fear it won't be a nice car to drive under 5k revs.
 
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M
#18 · (Edited)
Sebring NL said:
:hihi: Glad to see Motorsport and myself have the same vision :hihi:
This is indeed interesting, but I never knew it to be more than rumours.
Click to expand...
-
Sebring NL@
Please do NOT add to the confusion.:nono:
1.
The -Chris Wagner car - and the specifications of his his car are more then rumours but it was -never- an original ///M-Garching-build-factory car.
2.
The specifications of one of the -real and genuine- 408 bhp factory cars are still unknown. The build-sheet for the only known car does NOT reveal any other special specifications than the engine itself - only -.:dunno::M5launch:
 
S
#19 ·
I beg your pardon?
 
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S
#21 ·
jamgusa said:
Yes,
I do not know how many were made but one, burgundy red,
was made for Gabriele Rafanelli, owner of Team Bigazzi, and
he sold it a few years ago.
I drove it once as at the time I was his Team manager.
I know Paul Roche had one, as he himself told me.

Jaime
Click to expand...
This is exiting!

tell us more
 
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J
#22 · (Edited)
Ok:
Team Bigazzi was owned by Gabriele Rafanelli and Aldo Bigazzi was the
technical director and from 1987 to 1998 was one of the two factory
BMW Motorsport Teams the other being Schnitzer.
Base was in San Gimignano near Florence, Italy.
They ran cars in different Supertouring Championships in Europe (the 320
four door cars) driven by Pierluigi Martini , Emanulele Pirro, Johnny Cecotto, Alex Burgstaller, Steve Soper Jo Winkelhock and others through the years.
I was Team Manager from 1993 to 1996 and in 1996 we also ran the McLaren
F1 GTR at Le Mans Silverstone, Brasilia and Curitiba with Piquet, Sullivan, Laffitte, Cecotto, Duetz and Soper.
Rafanelli, being rich, had one of the 400 hp m5, Burgundy mettallic red with tan interiors.
It was wickedly fast and Gabriele was caught more than once at 240 plus
on the freeways.
I drove it a few times and it really was quite unbelieavable.
He sadly and stupidly sold it a few years back.


Jaime
 
M
#23 · (Edited)
Hi Jaime@
Good to hear from you and reports have come in seeing you in your neighborhood driving around in that astonishing high mileage M5touring:M5thumbs::M5thumbs:
-
So much for the E34 M5 408 bhp rumours.... and I do honestly believe each and every word you have written this time and also earlier on this subject and why wud I not :lightbulb::)
To get someone at BMW or the M-GmbH to confirm this, has however shown to be so very much more difficult. I understand that most of the guys and especially the guy who was engine-responsible for these engines in those days, all have gone into retirement by now. Still, one would think and believe that these cars should either be on record somewhere or somebody should remember ??
Still, we found at least one build sheet for one of these (it is NOT burgundy red ) and then there is that car in -Dubai, UAE-, I wonder if that one cud be the -burgundy red- ???:dunno:
 
J
#24 · (Edited)
Ciao Karl,
nice to hear from you too.
My DV is very well, though I still have to tackle having it repainted one of these days; I'm just about to change the front bearings/hubs all the discs and pads and front tie rods.
I know Paul Roche had one of those cars and I think he drove to
Saltzburgring once with it and it may have been fjord grau, but I'm not sure
it was it.
I never saw any in Garching the many times I was there, and yes most
of the people who were there then are retired so it would be very difficult
to track anything: you know very well that everything there was sort of
done "off the record" and the 400hp car was just done initially on a personal whim by Paul Roche himself. I believe he told me once that he wanted one and then other "friends" wished to have it.
I'll ask Gabriele next time I speak to him: he must remember better. I do remember his car well as it was parked inside Team Bigazzi for a very long time


JAime
 
M
#33 · (Edited)
...and it's got Cast M-Systems!
 
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#35 ·
So Mr. Rosche turned up in a car looking like Fjord grey? Could it possibly have been Sterling silver? Because that is the colour of the '95 model, delivered with 400 hp. It also has a light silvergrey nappa leather interior. 3rd stop light and sold for export with English language version.
Date of production = 1994-12-05. Sterlingsilber metallic is a special paint for the '95s (490 Sonderlackierung).

For the ones reading German the description is as follows:
Leistungsgesteigerter Motor (400 PS)
Aufbau bei ZS-M-31, Herr X mit saemtlichen Anbauteilen!
S38-Motor Nr. 60330869
Im Schadens- oder Reparaturfall sind Teile über ZS-M-3 zu
beziehen.
Der Verbau des Motors ist mit serienmaessigem Antriebsstrang
und Fahrwerk wie HC91 zu erfolgen (gem. BA 8167.G).
 
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