Well, now that I've had the M5 checked over at the garage, now comes the time when I need to plan what work needs to be done and what doesn't. I'm aware some of the answers to my questions are already on the board somewhere, and I've done a bit of digging around, but I'm just asking them again for my own piece of mind
So, the report back from the garage mentioned the following
Rear EDC dampers leaking, not MOT failure but they will require replacement fairly soon.
Front dampers appear to be in good condition.
Front drag arm bushes slightly worn (the knocking can be heard when driving the car), however almost no play can be found with the car up on ramps.
Rocker Cover Gasket is leaking.
Steering box worn (I can’t remember exactly what was mentioned, but something along those lines)
Various other small bits and bobs around the car, nothing other mechanical.
So, I now have an idea of what is required to bring the car back up to excellent condition, I just need to come up with a plan of work for the coming months.
I’m also looking for advice or suggestions on various bits I would like to do, namely the pitfalls and upsides of stuff, and which parts I should be using. I’m basically trying to put together a list of the parts I will need, along with part numbers so I can try and price them all up. I’m guessing it would be easier to get them all from a main BMW dealer, but which one? Do any of them do discount for bulk purchases???
Anyway, here’s the plan so far: Replace rear dampers and associated parts
I’ve thought about changing the entire suspension system for an aftermarket system, but I’d rather keep the EDC and keep the car reasonably original. Also, with the front dampers appearing to be in good condition I see no point in removing them if I don’t have to. The EDC does have a slight difference in feel between the 2 settings, but nowhere near what it should be. One thing I don’t know is what else I should replace along with the dampers? I’ve seen various diagrams showing the parts, but what would need to be replaced. Will the springs require replacement? Can anybody give me a list of part numbers? Poly bushes all round, along with replacement engine and gearbox mounts, along with replacing the drag arms.
It seems the easiest option if half the suspension is coming off to replace the bushes while I’m at it, and I might as well do the gearbox and engine mounts while it’s there! However, I noticed there was different sizes of bushes available, how do I know which one is for my car? Also, are standard engine/gearbox mounts suitable, or should I be looking to upgrade these as well?
Again, does anybody have part numbers for these? Water pump replacement and Cam Chain tensioner upgrade.
Is a rebuilt pump or new pump the better option?
Can anybody give me the correct part number for the tensioner and associated parts? Rocker cover gasket replaced
Seems easier to replace it with a standard item. Part number? New/Refurb steering box
Where is the best place to get this?
Included in this will be an Inspection 1 service, along with a set of new rear tyres (can’t help but go sideways), should I stick with 245’s, or could I squeeze on a set of 255’s for a little added traction? (It has the 18 inch M Parallels on it, 8J F 245's / 9J R 245's). Also, the garage that i use (blokes ex BMW, helluva nice guy) reckons it should be 5w40 fully synthetic, but the manual says 15w40 or 15w50. Who's right?
There is a slight whirring/whining coming from the back of the car round bends, more noticeable when off the power. Could this be the diff? If so, where could I find/beg/steal/borrow another, and is the normal diff best? Or is it nothing and I’m just being paranoid????
Sorry for the rather long post, I’ve been meaning to ask it all bit by bit, but kept putting it off and now had to stick it all in one go!
I’ve stumbled round the net and found various sites like RealOEM, but I don’t know if I’m getting the correct part numbers, and I’d prefer to only visit the main stealer once to be bent over a barrel! I have a partial list of part numbers, but having looked around I now don’t know if I’ve got the right ones, and I don’t really trust a dealer to tell me if I do or not.
And before anybody asks, no, i haven't thought about how much it will cost, all i know is it's likely to be a lot!!
Any help, ideas or suggestions you guys have would be much appreciated
The first thing that I would say is take your time ......
New owners of secondhand cars are renowned for getting carried away with their initial expenditure . This is typically because they may be uncertain of the history of their purchase and are obviously unfamiliar with the idiosyncrasies of the said car .
You , however , have had a good read through the service history of Dronfield's former car and half know it to be a decent , well looked after , example .
I would , therefore , advise you to get a second opinion on the works required and also , to prioritise the servicing .
My suggestions would be :
Chain Tensioner Part number 11311405081 ( from S50B32 Engine )
Gasket Ring Part number 07119963418
Valve cover gasket : 11121312172 and 3 of the spark plug gaskets 11121312173
The steering box may just require a bit of play taking out and I would certainly advise that somebody who knows these particular cars check it for you .
The oil should be 10w40 as these engines are now over 10 years old and 5w may be a touch thin ......although there are numerous debates on the subject ......I know that people far more clever than myself run their S38B38 engines on 10w40 semi synthetic will 3,000 mile oil changes without a problem .....I personally run mine on Castrol Edge 10w60 fully synthetic with 3,000 mile oil changes but , then again , my shoes cost more than most peoples houses !
As for tyres , personally I would opt for 235s front and 255s rear but again , there are many differing opinions on this ......I certainly wouldn't go bigger than 265 rear !
The whirring noise from the rear certainly sounds diff related .....when was the diff oil last changed ? Again , a decent specialist should be able to confirm .
TAKE YOUR TIME , DEAL WITH THE ESSENTIAL ......Rome wasn't built in a day !
D
__________________
Better a day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep !
The main reason i was going to do most of the work is i'm hopefully going to be taking the car to the 'Ring and a blast through Europe in April, and i'd rather it was in tip top condition so there was very little chance of anything failing.
I do appreciate you're advice though, all taken on board, and thak you for the part numbers!
I should probably also mention, as far as Mark (previous owner) is aware, it's never had the dampers changed (actually as far as i can tell, most of the suspension is original as well), and i can find no evidence of them being done in the history, however there is only the service book (ie no reciepts) up to 60k and i haven't had the chance to get to a main dealer with the reg/vin number to see if they could print out a history for me to confirm. If they are the originals, does that make it the oldest/highest mileage car with original dampers???? Lol
The indie i use for servicing is ex main dealer BMW, plus he has a real passion for the E34 M5 and seems to know his way around them. The only stuff he recommended doing was the drag arm bushes next time it was in as the knocking gets a little annoying as the remainder wasn't serious enough to warrent immidate attention
Hope you are enjoying the delights of M5 ownership. My garage still seems a little empty
The engine oil that I have always used in it is Castrol GTX Magnatec 15w 40. I am not sure if using a thinner oil causes more leaks, as it is easier for the thinner oil to penetrate gaskets. There is also the issue of the oil having the correct "weight" for the timing chain tensioner, though this will not be so much of an issue if you upgrade to the M3 later part.
On the data DVD I gave you there is a folder called TIS, which is the system BMW dealers have for locating part numbers. You can type in the last 7 digits of the chassis number and browse parts at your leisure. In the folder is a disk image, created by Nero. Possibly tis.nrg if I remember right. If you know someone with Nero burning software, if you burn the image you will have a BMW TIS CD. PM me if you need more help.
I had only replaced the front springs for new OEM units, and the rear axle carrier bushes suspension wise.
I wasn't aware of any knocking from the front end, but then I didn't really drive it in anger, and always had the CD on......
How does it compare to your mates 3.6 ? I've never been in one of those.
At least it's getting used now..........
Mark
OOps - better change my signature...............
__________________
1995 3.8 6 speed - gone, but not forgotten.
1999 Land Rover Discovery Td5 ES
Last edited by dronfieldm; 7th January 2008 at 21:45.
Mark, I'd agree with emelda marcos - oli. Prioritise the work, and, one of Davids favourites, get the clearances checked as well, no doubt you have read a bit about this lately.
Eastern in Edinburgh give me discount, could probably get one of our rep's to drop off in Aberdeen or meet you in Dundee. Chas has a contact at Grassicks in Perth iirc.
The oil, I would stick with Magnatec if that's what Mark's been using. There is never going to be one clear brand / viscosity recommended here, although tws / edge 10/60 possibly get's the most vote's. For me Amsoil series 2000, 20/50 would be my preferred choice, tad expensive for use in a car that get's oil changes every 3 - 5k, great smell though!
For the diff i'd recommend Millers crx ls 80 / 140 - worked very well, as in cured chattering / rubbing noise encountered when making slow full lock turns.
Bushes, I understand from reading here, that the black powerflex bushes are the best poly option, pm 'Cyrus' for these. I fitted purple one's on my car with no issue's thus far. I found an easier way to fit the poly bushes was by using a cordless drill and a suitably sized hole saw attachment to cut through the rubber and then tap out the metal outer ring - nae bother! saves removing the arms, avoiding the potential nightmare scenario of removing the lower arm ball joint.
Oh, as far as I am aware, the numbers on realoem.com are good.
Below is a link to a thread on here about BMW stating that "seepage" from the dampers is "normal". Are the rear dampers proper leaking, or is it just seepage ?
MODELS: All (equipped with self-leveling suspension)
Situation: The high system pressure inherent in the self-levelling suspension system can cause oil to seep past the piston rod seal of the shock absorber, and this film becomes even more apprent as it tends to collect dust.
This seepage is normal and is not to be considered a defect Excessive oil leakage will be evidenced by distinct drops forming on the shock absorber body.
Also, when the vehicle is raised on a lift with the wheels hanging free, it is possible that there will be an overflow from the reservior, due to the unusual amount of oil being returned to the reservior. This is also considered normal"
Hope this helps.
Mark
__________________
1995 3.8 6 speed - gone, but not forgotten.
1999 Land Rover Discovery Td5 ES
Last edited by dronfieldm; 8th January 2008 at 11:57.
Hope you are enjoying the delights of M5 ownership. My garage still seems a little empty
The engine oil that I have always used in it is Castrol GTX Magnatec 15w 40. I am not sure if using a thinner oil causes more leaks, as it is easier for the thinner oil to penetrate gaskets. There is also the issue of the oil having the correct "weight" for the timing chain tensioner, though this will not be so much of an issue if you upgrade to the M3 later part.
On the data DVD I gave you there is a folder called TIS, which is the system BMW dealers have for locating part numbers. You can type in the last 7 digits of the chassis number and browse parts at your leisure. In the folder is a disk image, created by Nero. Possibly tis.nrg if I remember right. If you know someone with Nero burning software, if you burn the image you will have a BMW TIS CD. PM me if you need more help.
I had only replaced the front springs for new OEM units, and the rear axle carrier bushes suspension wise.
I wasn't aware of any knocking from the front end, but then I didn't really drive it in anger, and always had the CD on......
How does it compare to your mates 3.6 ? I've never been in one of those.
At least it's getting used now..........
Mark
OOps - better change my signature...............
Hi Mark
I topped up the oil with 15w40, but when it went in to get checked over i got the oil change done at the same time and didn't think to ask. I'll stick 15w40 in it when it goes for it's inspection 1.
I was actually wondering what that folder was for! I've only just gotten round to going through all the stuff you gave me so i'll have a look tonight and see if i can work it out
I think the knocking has raised its head due to it being driven "enthusiastically" on a regular basis, plus i'm developing a taste for wet roundabouts and sliproads
Mine is a little faster compared to his 3.6 in a straight line, and with the bigger brakes it stops better as well. I think his rides slightly better than mine, however i'll need to compare once the rear dampers are replaced. The 6 speed box makes a big difference on it's crusing ability though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlem5
Mark, I'd agree with emelda marcos - oli. Prioritise the work, and, one of Davids favourites, get the clearances checked as well, no doubt you have read a bit about this lately.
Eastern in Edinburgh give me discount, could probably get one of our rep's to drop off in Aberdeen or meet you in Dundee. Chas has a contact at Grassicks in Perth iirc.
The oil, I would stick with Magnatec if that's what Mark's been using. There is never going to be one clear brand / viscosity recommended here, although tws / edge 10/60 possibly get's the most vote's. For me Amsoil series 2000, 20/50 would be my preferred choice, tad expensive for use in a car that get's oil changes every 3 - 5k, great smell though!
For the diff i'd recommend Millers crx ls 80 / 140 - worked very well, as in cured chattering / rubbing noise encountered when making slow full lock turns.
Bushes, I understand from reading here, that the black powerflex bushes are the best poly option, pm 'Cyrus' for these. I fitted purple one's on my car with no issue's thus far. I found an easier way to fit the poly bushes was by using a cordless drill and a suitably sized hole saw attachment to cut through the rubber and then tap out the metal outer ring - nae bother! saves removing the arms, avoiding the potential nightmare scenario of removing the lower arm ball joint.
Oh, as far as I am aware, the numbers on realoem.com are good.
Enjoy the investment.
Thanks for that. I'll get all the fluids changed when its next in the garage, it won't be getting much use over the next couple of months so i've got some time to figure out what acutally needs to be done.
I'm quite keen to poly bush the whole car, mainly just to give me piece of mind about driving it hard and having one less thing to worry about the the near future, especially as the car will be up on ramps anyway. I've always been big on preventative maintenance, and the fact the engine mounts are a half hour job to change i figured i might as well go the whole hog and do the lot while it was there.
Ditto for the water pump as i had planned to change the tensioner anyway, so figured i might as well change the pump at the same time.
The clearances should be fine, the car had an Inspection 2 done by Mark less than 2k before i bought the car, plus the engine sounds very sweet with almost no top end noise at all, however i might get them done anyway to make sure everything is tip top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dronfieldm
Hi,
Below is a link to a thread on here about BMW stating that "seepage" from the dampers is "normal". Are the rear dampers proper leaking, or is it just seepage ?
MODELS: All (equipped with self-leveling suspension)
Situation: The high system pressure inherent in the self-levelling suspension system can cause oil to seep past the piston rod seal of the shock absorber, and this film becomes even more apprent as it tends to collect dust.
This seepage is normal and is not to be considered a defect Excessive oil leakage will be evidenced by distinct drops forming on the shock absorber body.
Also, when the vehicle is raised on a lift with the wheels hanging free, it is possible that there will be an overflow from the reservior, due to the unusual amount of oil being returned to the reservior. This is also considered normal"
Hope this helps.
Mark
Thanks for that Mark. The dampers are leaking, the mechanic said they weren't far off an MOT failure, hence my desire to change them. I'm willing to trust the guy that works on it to give me an accurate idea of what might be wrong, and i trust his judgement. The PAS fluid seems normal, though i haven't checked it in a while (mainly as the car hasn't done a lot of miles in the past few weeks), I'll add it to the list of jobs for the weekend!
So out of the stuff i listed, what do you guys reckon is the stuff that i should be doing, and the stuff i should leave for a later date. My current plan is to try and do all of this in late March/early April as i'm hoping to hit Europe at the end of April. I'm mindful of the demands thundering round the 'ring will put on the car, along with general driving round other parts of europe, hence why a lot of the work i wanted to do.
I think I'd do the polybushes, as this will tighten the car up, the knocking at the front and the rear shocks then prior to your blast across to the 'ring.
Maybe you could try a refurbed set of shocks from the thread on here and see how you get on. Will be a fraction of the cost of new ones, and have had improvements made to the seals etc.
Don't forget that ASBO's (?) 3.6 runs on 17 inch rims with a higher profile tyre, so will ride different to yours. I had a 1992 5 speed for 2 years before your 6 speed and the ride was more comfortable, but less "tight".
I believe there may be some adjustment in the steering box, which may make things better without having to purchase a new unit.
You may want to replace the brake fluid with another type for the 'ring blast - MMM-Five (Tony) used to track his 6 speed a fair bit and did find that changing the fluid helps - is it a different Dot rating ? if I remember right, and there have been a number of posts regarding a more track orientated brake pad.
It'll probably be a bit hard on the tyres, so you may prefer scrubbing off a cheap set rather than expensive ones, though that will obviously alter the handling.......
Springs are relatively inexpensive, so you may want to do the rears at the same time as the shocks ? The fronts were genuine ones, not so long ago, so they should be fine.
I'd be careful changing the width of the tyres, as BMW spent a long time setting the car up. If you put on wider rears, you'll get more rear grip, and the car will understeer more........I always found the car to be nice and "neutraly balanced" in corners, but this of course is personal taste.
I look forward to pictures of "Blue Thunder" on the 'Ring.
Mark
__________________
1995 3.8 6 speed - gone, but not forgotten.
1999 Land Rover Discovery Td5 ES
You may want to replace the brake fluid with another type for the 'ring blast - MMM-Five (Tony) used to track his 6 speed a fair bit and did find that changing the fluid helps - is it a different Dot rating ? i
Most of us track folk use either Moturl RBF or Castrol SRF - both are absolutely fantastic brake fluids and will never boil on you - they are DOT 4 thus fully compatible with the car.
I think I'd do the polybushes, as this will tighten the car up, the knocking at the front and the rear shocks then prior to your blast across to the 'ring.
Maybe you could try a refurbed set of shocks from the thread on here and see how you get on. Will be a fraction of the cost of new ones, and have had improvements made to the seals etc.
Don't forget that ASBO's (?) 3.6 runs on 17 inch rims with a higher profile tyre, so will ride different to yours. I had a 1992 5 speed for 2 years before your 6 speed and the ride was more comfortable, but less "tight".
I believe there may be some adjustment in the steering box, which may make things better without having to purchase a new unit.
You may want to replace the brake fluid with another type for the 'ring blast - MMM-Five (Tony) used to track his 6 speed a fair bit and did find that changing the fluid helps - is it a different Dot rating ? if I remember right, and there have been a number of posts regarding a more track orientated brake pad.
It'll probably be a bit hard on the tyres, so you may prefer scrubbing off a cheap set rather than expensive ones, though that will obviously alter the handling.......
Springs are relatively inexpensive, so you may want to do the rears at the same time as the shocks ? The fronts were genuine ones, not so long ago, so they should be fine.
I'd be careful changing the width of the tyres, as BMW spent a long time setting the car up. If you put on wider rears, you'll get more rear grip, and the car will understeer more........I always found the car to be nice and "neutraly balanced" in corners, but this of course is personal taste.
I look forward to pictures of "Blue Thunder" on the 'Ring.
Mark
Cheers again Mark
To be honest the tyres size was just an idle thought whilst washing the car at Christmas, If it starts affecting the handling drastically i'll stick with standard sizes.
I've read about there being adjustment in the steering box, instead of doing my backlog of work today i seem to be spending a long time on here instead doing research!! I'll have to wait until it's in the garage to find out if the adjustment is enough to solve the problem.
Brake fluid and pads were on the to do list, but they got bumped to the back burner until i figured out what to do with the suspension.
I suppose the next question is what actually needs replaced on the rear suspension? Is it just a matter of replacing the damper and spring, or are there various other parts that should be done at the same time. I know there's a good few parts that should be replaced when the fronts are done, does the same apply to the rears?
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