///Martin

Hi

At first I would like to say hello to all members of that wonderful board!

I'm a new member and possibly another M5 dreamer.:p

Currently I'm driving in a M-reg 525i and I want to upgrade it to 535i Sport soon and then hopefully realize my long term dream and buy the daddy of them all - ///M5

I've tried to read all the posts regarding buying and maintaining such a beast but I still have some questions (I can hear a lot of voices saying now - What? Not again!)

I'm thinking of buying an 3.6 car because I've read it is a bit less problematic and easier to maintain. Am I right or wrong?
I've read about the cost of replacing EDC dampers and this together with more likely engine troubles (if I'm right?) put me a little bit of from 3.8.
Why do the M5 engines give trouble?
Apart from overheating or no oil changes, valve clearances, revving cold engine and timing chain tensioner - what else can go wrong and why?
The engine trouble and cost of repairing one is my biggest worry (and insurance for now but this can be still sorted out)
I assume that the rest is just (or should be) the case of putting things right like in any other BMW's and have a piece of mind for some time (more or less) ie brakes suspension but of course parts will be more expensive because of the M badge
Where can You buy specific M-parts other than BMW them selfs?
Any specialist shops?

What kind of MPG are You getting from Your cars in normal driving conditions because when looking at some BmwCar magazine articles (Bob Harpers M5 buying guide and Big White's running report) I noticed that the M5 MPG is between 15-30 according to Bob and in running report the 3.8 gives constantly somewhere near 25 MPG - thats better than my average in 525i! I can get 30 MPG on motorway (if I take it easy) but everyday driving it's somewhere near 20 MPG.

What do You think about that car for sale?
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk...=&max_mileage=

It's for sale quite a long time but if I would be looking to buy M5 now I would look for a car like that one. Does any one know that car and what is wrong with it if anything?

Ok I will end my first long post and hope that You won't told me of and give me a lot of bashing at the very beginning!

Sebring NL

Welcome!

Martin

First of all, every E34 M5 is quite an expensive car to maintain. Even the best cars on this very board (for instance Jon Baker Jr and Sr's low mileage , 1995 cars) cost considerable to keep up to spec. It might not be expensive to get MOT (it CAN be) but thats not what we're after here. We want as much factory performance back as we can get and that means pro-active maintenance. Valve clearances, Throttlebody sync, gaskets, vacuum hoses, oil, plugs, the lot. It all needs to be perfect before the car delivers it performance. Valve clearances too far off spec can easily cost an engine.

The MPG on the S38 isn't that bad if you ask me, I've experienced quite reasonable mileage recently in member GoneAgain's 3.6 on our journey to Prague (ofcourse Autobahn speeds but still acceptable) . Compared to other cars with 200+ hp I think its quite good. I usually get only 500 km's from a tank but thats mainly because I only use the car if I can properly "use" it

When looking to buy, don't be too shy . Member Davidoli has bought several cars and none of them were perfect from the beginning, but most of them turned out to be very nice IMO and EXCELLENT bang for buck. Try getting a 326hp MB 500e W124 for less than 15k! Expensive repairs can be seen in for instance failing interior parts (fan motor is nightmare) seats, wiper linkage etc.

The 3.6 is known to hold its power a bit better than the 3.8 (both engines have their common faults) and is less likely to get crankshaft bearing shell trouble. Also, the infamous EDC costs serious money to replace and if it hasn't been replaced yet, it probably will need to be. If in working order, it rivals the Electronic suspension used by the big names (Ferrari uses a similar system on the 456 , Maserati's current Skyhook system isn't far off technically either) . You can switch from Nordschleife-stiff to grandma-chauffeuring by the flick of your finger! Bottom line is, the 3.8 can have more problems with the additional EDC and the engine has a higher record of failure ( but the 3.6 can go too unless maintained properly).

So, buy one!

__________________
///M5HD91-229-
|Eibach|Koni|Porsche Brembo
for looking through the windscreen
///M535iDC71-181-
|H&R|Bilstein|Sparco
for looking through the Lexan side windows

B6 3.5 1531-668-
|Dogleg|Glanzschwarz
for fun
C1 2.5 1531-184-
|D-1 cage|full race spec
for looking at chequered flags

740d GE81-317-
twinscroll v8 diesel daily

farrell

Hello Martin & Welcome.
3.6 are slow.
3.8 are really fast.
I am not biased.

Good luck & hope you get a nice car.

Farrell

davidoli

Welcome to the board Martin ......

Personally , I would skip the 535 stage and go straight to the E34 M5 stage ...

The car that you highlight has been for sale for a while and appears reasonable , although I can think of 2 members cars on here ( PFinucane and ChasC ) that are both considering their 3.6s . I consider both examples to be better buys than the car mentioned . I have not physically seen the car that you highlight in the flesh .

A well maintained 3.8 will always be a touch quicker than a well maintained 3.6 for obvious reasons .......the 2 cars drive totally differently imo ....why not test drive one of each to see which you prefer .....

Best Wishes ,
D

__________________
Better a day as a tiger than a lifetime as a sheep !

91 Sebring 3.6

E28 UK RHD M5

///Martin

I know that it won't be cheap to run an M5 but I want to buy one to cherish it and enjoy every single ride! I want to turn it in to my little baby and buy her anything what she will require. (hope my girlfriend never read this!)
I want to buy one and keep it for very very long (hope I will live long enough) because e34 M5 is perfect car in my opinion and I don't like the newer cars as much and I hate the brand new soul-less ones.
I imagine that EDC is a brilliant suspension but the cost of replacing one put me off. I was thinking of 3.6 with original suspension or upgraded Bilstein shocks with Eibach springs (without rear SLS)
I think 3.6 will be fast enough for me (for a while) but then I can always remap it to extract few more ponies!

Farrell could You please shed some more light for me regarding S38 engines problems from technical point of view? I will really appreciate it!

Wish I could
I realize that M5 ownership isn't cheap (thanks to reading this Board) and first I will have to change my current job simply to afford one and secondly I have to recover from my car accident. I'm thinking of an 535i because my car isn't powerful enough any more and 3.5 should deliver some cheap thrills for now!
No doubt about this but unfortunately I'm not in the position of buying one my self now just yet but I want to collect as much information as possible before I will be ready!
I'm waiting for the invites!

Thanks for all reply s Guys!

GoneAgain

I'd like a close look at this car. ditch the Angel Eyes and crystal rear for dark hellas all round and away you go!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=007


Btw, can't believe nobody has pointed out the wrong way Tstar covers on your link!

Anal bunch that we can be!!!

__________________
Look on the bright side, if I don't drive it for a year (2 years) the engine rebuild will pay for itself.(I'll make a profit!!).

///Martin

Can't buy any ///M5 at this moment but I think I can comment!

The interior must be rare because I never seen anything like it before but it's not for my taste.
Factory non EDC? Was there such an option on 3.8?
De-cated - wouldn't that affect emissions on MOT? (I know it's legal on older cars but I think only up to 1992)
What makes me wonder (apart from e46 tensioner) is: all that engine rebuild, gas flowed head, performance cams and remap and only 350BHP?
Don't like the spoiler (is it possible to remove it without any trace?)
Prefer the original Throwing Stars (my favorite alloys)
Hate the rear lights and angel eyes but don't mind the clear indicators.

When I will be looking for a car I hope I will have between £5K-£6K and there is still an option of buying an LHD car in Germany or Netherlands etc.

farrell

Hi Martin
The S38 is strong.
It mostly suffers from abuse & poor attention to detail within service
& maintenance.
The bores & valve guides wear...they do on all engines though.

Most bottom end issues are to do with bearing shell wear.
Again, use & abuse.
They probably bother me most.

What can easily be remedied is regular oil & coolant changes.
Changing perished oil breather & water coolant hoses.
Thermostats, water pumps / aux water pumps all get clagged up.
I would suggest that many of the engines issues on old cars can
be attributed to poor coolant maintenance.
That, in combination with poor valve clearances could see the ***** of
an engine under hard usage.

Gasket technology is decades old.
A generic carry over from the M88 & S14 era when singlex chains were employed.
Coincidentally, the engine oil leaks coincided with the mileage / time line requirement
to inspect the timing chain on the above mentioned vehicles....you are
almost forced to do it
With duplex chain on S38 the issue is not there
However, you are going to be attending to sump & front timing cover leaks every
60-100k miles regardless.

Its a bullet proof engine with some givens that it's essentially a racing engine
in a heavy saloon.

Stay on top of the car.
When the OBC bongs you, fix it.
Regularly lift the hood.
Just inspect & check.

These are one the all time great saloons imho.
An alround vehicle from a time when handling power were in proportion
before electronic aids HAD to be employed for the masses.
You drive these cars with your head, not your b@lls.

What more can you ask for ?
Farrell

Alan Archer

You're nearly there with your list but add in a poorly maintained cooling
system. . .pipework, hoses, radiators & regular coolant flush/changes...

I too went the 525, 535, //M5 route.
I agree with some of the other comments made here regarding skipping out
the 535.....
I had a 535i sport manual in very good condition prior to the M5 and it was
by far the most unresolved of all the E34's I owned.(4)

If you have a nice 525, hang onto it & use that extra cash saved not
changing the car to save up for an M5.

My 3.8's long term mpg since autumn is 25.7mpg.
It did 30mpg all the way to the 'ring.

I'm coming up to my 10th anniversary of owning my car

As Farrell says, preventative maintenance is ALL....

My car has never let me down and never failled an mot.

Maintenance as follows>

oil + filter every 2-3k.
plugs, air filter, fuel filter every year.
gearbox/diff oil every year.
All drive belts every 2 years.
Valve clearances (cheers Farrell) 10k.

In addition to this the car has had (in 9 years)
rear discs 1 set & pads.
front pads x2 sets.
4 sets of tyres.
Complete coolant hose replacement (and I mean 15+ hoses)
New waterpump /gasket/ viscous fan (preventative)
2 door lock actuators.
2x brake fluid change.
1x clutch fluid change.
1 cabin microfilter.
1 heater fan resistor pack.
2 x bumper rubber strips replaced.
4x new wheel centre cap emblems.
1x propshaft centre coupling.
2x front suspension lower arms (probably not needed)
1 wiring repair to rear edc loom wires.
1x lamda oxygen sensor.
1x heater valve assembly.
1x new battery (bmw).
1x new glovebox torch.

Over & above this the car gets washed whenever its used (1-2weeks)
Polished when required (3weeks or so)
I get underneath it every year & rust proof the exhaust system & brake pipes.

That may sound extensive (maybe not eh Wout ?)
but it equates to being sensible & spending a few weekends a year getting
hot/cold etc.

Darren (Farrell) knows my car.

Hope this info is helpful Martin.

ps....I never exceed 3000rpm when cold & if left sitting for over 2days I will give the engine
a 6 second crank (immobiliser on) to build oil pressure before starting.

__________________
///M5 the only substitute for capacity is even greater capacity...

///Martin

Thanks for the last 2 posts guys - quite possibly most of my questions have been answered by now!
I know that poor maintenance will finish most engines and old coolant is a killer in all BMWs.
Few years ago I had an e32 735i which was in very good condition and only one previous owner. But he didn't changed to coolant to often and when I bought the car within a year I had to change the radiator, then water pump and then the water hoses stared to blow up together with heater valves. The viscous fan clutch stop working soon after as well.

I'm an enthusiastic DIY mechanic (sort of) myself and I always do some maintenance / small repairs my self so there shouldn't be a problem with lifting the bonnet up (can be other way round because I would love to just stare at that beautiful piece of engineering)

I'm still a little bit skeptic about the 3.8 - read few horror stories about them and that the 3.6 is less stressed so a bit more reliable.
I will still be buying "somebody's else" car and then will be left with "somebody's else" lack of maintenance and abuse

I will need to spend few quit on it to sort it out but I'm a bit bored of its lack of power and absence of lsd. Don't want to modify it cos I can buy a 535i Sport and tune it for the same money but with better results!
Aren't those oil changes a bit over the top? Do You drive very hard Alan?
The rest is more or less as I will be planing to do
How many miles did You do in those 9 years and how many sets of front discs did You gone through? How long lasts the clutch and how often do You need to synchronize throttle body and change the air box flap?
I never rev my engine when cold as well but that thing with the immobiliser sound like an good idea!
Thanks for the TIP!