850CSi: Still the Greatest - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

blaum8 · 14th September 2004, 19:08

Having had a chance to drive virtually every new BMW offering of the last decade, and certainly personally having seen them all, it's become a fact that BMW style peaked with the design of the E31 8 series. Nothing out of BMW since then has captured the 8's combination of styling, elegance, build quality, beauty, and on the road performance (particularly the 850CSi).

The late 90's general BMW styling was nothing more at bland at its finest (e.g. E39, E38), while the Bangle era of the 2000's has introduced visually hideous cars that are not selling well. When the Bangle-ized 3 series arrives, look for further sales declines in BMW's bread and butter market.

I haven't seen any statistics, but I would venture a guess that the majority of new BMW car buyers today are first time BMW buyers. I've heard many owners of earliers model BMWs say the design direction simply precludes buying from within the BMW family.

Ashok Arora · 14th September 2004, 20:03

I do like the Alpina B12 5.7 coupe a lot

jimmyz2 · 5th October 2004, 20:55

blaum8,I agree completely.That is why am am mooding my E34 540i 4.4L superchared car to the hilt and plan on keeping it.

Mark Carson · 20th May 2005, 01:52

Interestingly, BMW's official press releases (I subscribe to them via email) show sales of all models continue to increase.

I also have issues with aspects of the Bangle designs (2002 745i currently, 2005 645Ci in July). From what I hear from my salesman, he has lots of repeat customers, Bangle styling notwithstanding. So I'm not sure that they are "only sold to first time BMW owners".

Back when I was a kid (30+ years ago) I wanted a BMW even though I thought them to be ugly, boxy cars. They were and still are for the driver, not the spectators on the sidewalk or in other cars. That has not changed in 3 decades and we should continue to revel in the fun of driving them and just put up with the less than ideal styling. But, yeah, I'm with you - they could look better

jimmyz2 · 20th May 2005, 02:30

The new "Banglized" look has grown on me.Except the "Bangle-butt" and the "Dame Edna" eyeglasses.

CarlT · 24th May 2005, 21:45

I couldn't agree more. This is really one of the few purpose build BMWs aside from the M1 to be a supercar. Not a previous model that has been juiced up, so to speak. I was designed and build around a V12, seriously effective aerodynamics, all the bells and whistles that where available at the time.

There is no better GT and with the introduction of AHK and the CSi, almost sportscar like. With some suspension work it can be light years better in the twisties as well.

The face lifted 7 s much better, the 5 is OK and the 3 is nice. The 6 I think is a bit overpriced and cheap looking inside. Also the lack of hardtop for that open air feeling of the 8 with the windows down is very disappointing I think.

But the car does have presents when you see it on the road.

The new M5 I'm sure is a dream come true and I don't care what it looks like..

Still an CSi or a decent B12 is on my list, once I get some of my mortgage paid off..

CarlT · 24th May 2005, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Carson

Interestingly, BMW's official press releases (I subscribe to them via email) show sales of all models continue to increase.

I also have issues with aspects of the Bangle designs (2002 745i currently, 2005 645Ci in July). From what I hear from my salesman, he has lots of repeat customers, Bangle styling notwithstanding. So I'm not sure that they are "only sold to first time BMW owners".

I never thought I'd say this but, Maybe Chris isn't as dumb after all. Bear with me on this thought.

Sure the design is not for everyone, so? Look what has happened to Audi. Sure they are great cars, but **** they look boring. It is hard to tell the difference between an A3 and A6. Everyone drives an Audi around here, its like a VW... It is like the have continued to design and design on a model until there is nothing left of it.

Then have a look at BMW. The start with a compete redesign, threw out everything and came up with something completly new! The models are very different and the brand recognition is immediate, while the Audi could be anything....

BMW is doing GREAT and public is loving their cars so they must be doing something right.

But I still LOVE the E31, 32, 34, 36 and 38 and consider them the most popular and successful line of BMW's! ( But I'm sure history is going to prove me otherwise)

Richard Haller · 2nd June 2005, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlT

I never thought I'd say this but, Maybe Chris isn't as dumb after all. Bear with me on this thought.

Sure the design is not for everyone, so? Look what has happened to Audi. Sure they are great cars, but **** they look boring. It is hard to tell the difference between an A3 and A6. Everyone drives an Audi around here, its like a VW... It is like the have continued to design and design on a model until there is nothing left of it.

Then have a look at BMW. The start with a compete redesign, threw out everything and came up with something completly new! The models are very different and the brand recognition is immediate, while the Audi could be anything....

BMW is doing GREAT and public is loving their cars so they must be doing something right.

But I still LOVE the E31, 32, 34, 36 and 38 and consider them the most popular and successful line of BMW's! ( But I'm sure history is going to prove me otherwise)

Richard Haller · 2nd June 2005, 23:15

oops. i am new here so I hope that I didnt post something before by accident.

I have an E30 M3, so talk about classic ;-)

I would buy an M1 that is up for sale near here, but where could I drive it to really enjoy it except PIR, and that only a few days a year. Otherwise I have to put it away in a climate controlled garage that I dont have.

As far as Audi versus BMW versus Chris Bangle goes, my impression is that BMW got away for a long time with not only evolutionary changes to the basic design, but with a design theme that crossed the boundary between 3,5, and 7 series. Audi has been following the same path. Frankly, I couldn't tell the diffence between say, a 325 and an 535 until I got close. And not a hell of a lot difference sitting in the back seat :-P

I think there is only so long that you can get away with this. After a while, people start thinking that your design looks 'old'. Ironically, my daily driver is a 98 Volvo C70 that looks as 'modern' today as then, but I am 63 ;-) People still complement me on this car and cant belive it is a Volvo.

But if your company is going to survive, it has to appeal to a broad spectrum of ages. Cadillac appears to have realized this and been successful in changing their image to survive the greying (and dying) of their core constintuancy though the market they are appealing to has a lot of money as before.

Other brands are waking up too to this problem, and seem to realize that unless they introduce a model that is affordable by college age people in the US, they are giving away the later market to the Japanese. Hence the 1 series for BMW, etc. What is the hot car for guys in their teens and twenties today who are real car nuts? It is the WRC champ cars of Mitsubishi and Subaru. What cars do these kids buy to hop up like kids did in the 50s? Its Hondas, Acuras, etc.

As far as Audi goes, I dont like their new style grill at all. I would rather have the last generation S4 than the new one. Actually I am seriously looking at the earlier V6 twin turbo. Lots of tweaking available for that engine.

BTW, as far as 850s are concerned,the word I get is that they are cheap to buy, lots of bang for the buck, but VERY expensive to maintain. That is, when something breaks, better have deep pockets.

Ronin · 30th August 2006, 20:14

Based on the way resale values are holding up on 850CSi's, there's little doubt that well preserved specimens of this very rare car will always command a premium. They're just so well built with much higher quality materials than those used by BMW today. They probably represent the pinnacle of overall BMW build quality.