Powerchips and Upsolute - the truth - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

DrPaul · 30th December 2002, 05:07

Be careful what and who you believe. If you ahve purchased chips with the expectation, based upon manufacturers claims, that you would have more hp and torque, you might have wasted a considerable amount of money.
I have a BMW 850CSi. I looked through various ads for chips for this car. After several conversations with representatives from UpSolute, I purchased a set of chips for my car based upon their "datasheets" which showed an increase of 32hp and similar amount of torque. I went to the dyno (Dynojet 248) after breaking in the chips (putting 100 miles on the car in local and highway driving) and found I was down 15hp and 20lb-ft compared to a previous run with the stock chips. Just to be certain it wasn't some temperature/time/gas, etc. variable, I put the stock chips back in and was back to the original hp. Spoke with reps from the company and sent them my fuel-air charts from the dyno runs and they burned new chips. Nearly back to stock hp and torque, but still far off from the claimed increase. To their credit, my money was returned and the people were gentlemen throughout.

I contacted another company with similar claims - Powerchips. Their "Gold 98" chipset had claims of 30hp and 30 lb-ft increases as well. I wrote to and received responses from several reps from this company. I told them of my previous experience, to which I received a reply that "our chips improve the total driving experience which can't be deomnstrated on a dynomometer." I offered that while this might be true, the datasheets and graphs on their website make certain claims and while I would accept an increase of 25hp instead of 30, no increase or a decrease from stock wouldn't be acceptable. One individual responded that given my perspective, they could provide something that would make me happy.
EXCEPT, I recieived the following email today, after I happily said my money would be forthcoming:

"At 11:55 AM 12/30/02 +1100, you wrote:
Dear Dr Yodice,

I have made a decision not to supply the Powerchip in this instance, based on your conversations with Powerchip staff regarding your expectations.

In particular, you have returned competitors chips, and your emphasis on full throttle dynometer testing even after we have explained that it is not a representative test of the products benefits

Sorry we cant be of help.

Kind Regards,

Wayne Besanko
Powerchip Pty Ltd - Australia's leading performance chip company.
P + 613 9681 6888
F + 613 9681 6777
RNaylor@powerchipgroup.com
www.powerchipgroup.com"

So, be careful of what you believe. I am a very trusting soul, by nature, and have been burned many times in the past. It is easy to say you feel an improvement - it's called a placebo effect - and I thought, by the seat of my pants, I had gobs more power with the first set of chips when in reality I was down 10-20hp and lb-ft throughout the entire rpm range.

I am very discouraged by Mr. Besanko's response which means to me "We know we can't live up to our advertised specs, so we chose not to be exposed."

Be careful spending your money.

Paul

FAST 5 · 30th December 2002, 07:50

Thanks so much for being bold enough to write your post.
There are several guys on this board that have the powerchip and wish to get the newest powerchip, once they release it to the public. After seeing/reading your post, I think they will think twice before doing the powerchip software upgrade.
Sad you had to find out the hard way and were disappointed with the outcome.
Robert

FAST 5 · 30th December 2002, 07:55

Your findings & conclusions only solidify DINANS claim that it is NOT POSSIBLE to squeeze any additional power out from the M5 motor, and that's why DINAN's software does not and cannot do what other competitors claim, regarding horse power gains.
Buyer beware!
Robert

MikeC · 30th December 2002, 13:15

Sounds like they did just some EML reprogramming and changed the throttle valve responsiveness only - like a 'Super-S' setting.
That would make you believe the car had more power but the throttle just opens up more quickly.

That of course would not be measurable on a dynamometer. Just like real temperatures and 'felt' temperatures they now give you felt horsepower figures

.

...Mike

Marcelo · 30th December 2002, 13:16

I'm one of those happy with the Powerchip. Granted, I never took it to a dyno test (neither before or after upgrade) but I trust my butt feeling and what it says is there is improvement in the low range. Why? because I have a very steep ramp that always requiered a lot of gas to climb it (that is to get into my house) and the very first day coming back from the dealer I had no trouble to barely giving gas to climb this ramp. Now, I understand what you say 100%, and I agree. The claimed figures might simply not be there. Period. But the butt feeling is what at least for me gives me the pleasure of everyday driving.
On another note, the removal of the speed limiter is the one and only 'real' improvement, and for this, I'd have paid this upgrade without any other claims of more hp/torque.
Superchip UK claimed a very small gain on 400hp M5's (abt 18 hp), this might or might not be true (most likely not, considering your post) but 'something' they did on the low end regime, but I can't prove it (ok, I could take the car to a dyno test, but I'm too lazy). I have the graph sent to me by Superchip showing me a comparision pre and after. If you want I can send it over to you via e.mail, pm me. There it shows 24 hp gain, but on their message to me, only 18 were claimed as gain. Either way, I'm satisfied.

Cheers, Marcelo

DrPaul · 30th December 2002, 15:57

Hello Marcelo,
I agree with you as well - the "feel" of the car is ultimately the only important aspect of any upgrade.

If the manufactureres sites simply stated something like "better drivability and smoother operation" and even, "better hp and torque in most cases", there could be no argument nor disappointment. To publish graphs and spreadsheets which show impressive increases in both across the board, then not come close (and even fall short of stock) is false advertising.

I am not saying anyone should not buy these things, just be careful about spending and expectations. UpSolute people were great to work with and Powerchips correctly chose against selling to me as they knew their chips could not live up to their advertised claims of hp and torque increases.

Have a great Holiday, all.

Marcelo · 30th December 2002, 19:34

Paul, once again, I agree fully with you. It is plain and simple advertising. Figure someone's ad saying 'feel the difference, don't measure it!' (wow, it even sounds good!), I'd say more than one wouldn't give dime for it. Some others (there's always one) would say: YOU feel it, WE measure! claiming +50 hp (I think somewhere we have a thread with an ad claiming +90 hp?), most of the 'home improvement' car owners would jump into it, pretty much as adding spoilers, twin exhaust chrome tips on a 4 cyl diesel, 'turbo' looks, phony air intakes on the hood, etc. What I try to say is that there is a huge market out there of (unofortunately) uneducated people with (most of the times) little money to spend (typically youngsters), and they get this idea that their Skoda will beat an M3 if fitted with extra this and extra that. Marketing's what this is all about. That's the main market tuners aims to, the mass, not the 'elite', and that's the market that don't bother to know the truth, they want the looks and the graphs (nevermind is a readout of a quake in SoCal, the curve is HUGE!)
I don't blame Powerchip for claiming 18 hp on an M5 (I think the most conservative figure out there) and I praise their ethics while dealing with you.

I remember when my first kid was born (15 y.o. now), the wife and I went buying a baby craddle, the sales lady offered us 2 types: one 'standard' and the other (and believe me!) with 'turbo look' (it had 2 stripes sewed along the craddle!!!!) for extra 100 dkk (that was 15 $ back then...) Go figure!
All the best to everybody!
Marcelo

CarlT · 8th January 2003, 13:29

Paul

Thanks for posting your finds. I've always been sceptical to chips of any nature. Yes it it possible to gain more hp if you mod the parameters of the chips, but if you don't have the engine in front of you while you are writing the software it is pretty much futile... I was at Kelleners in Germany where I witnessed several M5s get custom chipped and they ALL increased their hp. What was more interesting was the spread in hp from the factory. some had as "little" as 370hp... But after new exhaust and custom chip programming to match the overall changes, a gain of approx 20-30hp was to be had.

The claim that the car feels better even if it can't be measured on a dyno if just lame! I guess if you just paid $500 it is easy to think that it feels better... The mind is a strange thing...

Regards
Carl

Ferrari-Bmw · 8th April 2003, 01:23

Do you guyes remember this one????

http://www.autothority.com/magazines/road_and_track.htm

A hell of a E-31

FAST 5 · 8th April 2003, 01:48

Not again..............................
Is this the clue, that these software downloads are fake?
Phony alert!!!!!!!!