DSC I was first introuced in the 850 CSi, correct? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Gustav · 19th March 2002, 01:06

That is what Hans Heiland says in AID:

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bm...re_intro.shtml

I beleive this is correct. Carl, MikeC?

Gustav · 19th March 2002, 01:08

I have ahd some disussioen with certain Moderators on the board

So what differs DSC I from DSC II and DSC III besides faster processing power?

MikeC · 19th March 2002, 08:39

Yes, DSC was introduced in the CSi, but not with it. The First CSis still had ASC+T.

What exactly the differences are between DSC I, II and III are I cannot tell. I think it's the software which provides better algorithms for keeping the car on the road or engaging more smoothly. I haven't driven a car with DSC yet.

But I have driven a Mercedes A-Class once. With their ESP on I thought "Wow, this feels almost like a rear-wheel driven car". I was seriously impressed. But with the ESP switched off the car got really nasty, showing not only the most brutal FWD characteristics but also its high center of gravity. I haven't driven any other car with that much understeer and body roll. Never turn off the ESP in an A-Class. However, if you want to experience what modern stability systems can do, the A-Class is most suitable.

The ASC+T in a CSi engages nice and softly, although being more than ten years old. Maybe it's because it is configured differently than in a standard 8 series. In a CSi it engages a little later, allowing you to slightly powerslide out of a turn without it closing the throttle or even braking the wheels.
My impression is that in a powerslide ASC+T in a CSi comes to life when you're sliding so much that it would decrease your lap time. This car even teaches you to drive!

But even without electronics you are fast. That's because M cars have a limited slip differential although they are equipped with ASC/DSC. Just look at AMG or Brabus... without traction control all they do with their power is burning up rubber on the inner wheel in a turn. Good for safety but it doesn't make you fast.

...Mike

CarlT · 23rd March 2002, 04:03

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeC
Yes, DSC was introduced in the CSi, but not with it. The First CSis still had ASC+T.

But even without electronics you are fast. That's because M cars have a limited slip differential although they are equipped with ASC/DSC. Just look at AMG or Brabus... without traction control all they do with their power is burning up rubber on the inner wheel in a turn. Good for safety but it doesn't make you fast.

...Mike

Also note worthy is the fact that BMWs that have limited slip have a different programming of the ASC+T system. It will allow more slippage that the LSD will counter effect. This is VERY noticable on say an E36 M3 contra a 328 in the wet. Same goes for the Csi versus the Ci.

Carl

Carl

ycchan · 12th April 2002, 16:22

Equipped with ASC/TC on the 850, how does it do in snow with proper snow tires?
Does it perform as good as DSC?

CarlT · 13th April 2002, 00:29

Quote:

Originally posted by ycchan
Equipped with ASC/TC on the 850, how does it do in snow with proper snow tires?
Does it perform as good as DSC?

DSC is always going to be better that ASC+T as it works on 4 wheels instead of 2. But I must admit that I've never driven an 8series in the snow..... I'm sure the ASC works great, but I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to stop the 1800kg in the snow.

Carl

MikeC · 15th April 2002, 17:59

I drove my CSi in the snow once, and I had NO winter tyres on! It was Christmas and very early. One of the days where no one was on the streets. So I thought that would be a good chance to test how the 8 behaves in snow.

First of all I had to turn the ASC+T off. The wheels were spinning so badly that I thought the stability control would stall the engine any moment. Then I had to switch the EML to Comfort-mode. 400 Nm of torque at engine idle speed (E46 M3 has just 365Nm @ 4900 rpm!) were just too much to control with the normal pedal characteristics in snow. But there was no difference afterwards. It was absolutely horrible.

By no means did I want to go faster than 30 kph (besides it took me ages to get that fast in the first place). The car was unstoppable. The anti-lock brakes were rattling but the car wouldn't slow down. You couldn't steer it either because inertia didn't care about the ridiculous grip my summer tyres had on the snow.

Well, I turned around very quickly and drove home. I cannot believe that even with winter tyres the car would be really controllable. Too heavy, too much torque.

...Mike

ycchan · 18th April 2002, 12:32

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeC
I drove my CSi in the snow once, and I had NO winter tyres on! It was Christmas and very early. One of the days where no one was on the streets. So I thought that would be a good chance to test how the 8 behaves in snow.
First of all I had to turn the ASC+T off. The wheels were spinning so badly that I thought the stability control would stall the engine any moment. ...Mike

O damn...then ASC is pretty useless in snow...

CarlT · 18th April 2002, 19:35

Quote:

Originally posted by ycchan

O damn...then ASC is pretty useless in snow...

No actually ASC is pretty good in the snow and wet. But it can never compensate for traction... Any BMW with good snow tires will benefit from the system. Any normal 3,5,7 and 8 will do fine. M cars are a little different. Their proramming takes into account that they have a limited slip( most models ) installed and hence a less agressive ASC.

Example; in the wet with ASC+T I was not able to get my rear to brake loose around corners on my 328isc, but I could without any problem with an M3.

ASC is great, but the laws of physics rule!

Carl