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Pics: South African red E28 M5

49K views 51 replies 22 participants last post by  mx5freak2 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)


G'day from Melbourne Gustav, and thanks for the update. Here are some pix of my own M5 ... South African built, number five of the 96 built with serial
number 001017 etched on all the glass, henna red with light grey "full
leather" (even the dash top) interior, 1987 build, imported to Australia
privately in 1996 (this model was not officially imported by BMW Australia),
45000 kms (28000 miles) to date from new.
It's Ok to put this on the site if you wish.

Kind regards, Stewart XXXX





 
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2
#2 ·
Definitely one of the cleanest E28 M5 I've seen so far.

So did this car also have the M Motorsport VIN number like the ones made in Germany? (Even though it wasn’t made at the same location as its German equivalent)
 
#3 ·
HIPAD said:
Definitely one of the cleanest E28 M5 I've seen so far.

So did this car also have the M Motorsport VIN number like the ones made in Germany? (Even though it wasn’t made at the same location as its German equivalent)
No, it doesn't. It does have the 001017 serial number etched on all the glass, but no definitive build plate or number. Apart from a new fuel tank (I have the original) to comply with Australian design regulations on import, a new boot floor mat and new tyres, the car is exactly as it left the factory. There are even still traces of the plastic used to cover the seats showing in the back. Stewart
 
#5 ·
Looks gorgeous in red - a real classic!
 
#10 ·
:confused2

As a regular visitor and a friend of Raymond Woertman I have also seen the post
on that red M-Tech E28 M5.

I don't want to spoil anyones' fun, that's why I pass you my thoughts by e-mail
instead of posting on the board.

E28 chassis 001017 is in fact BMW production number 2001017. That is (according
to ETK) not a M5 but a SA version of the 535i, probably a M535i. So that means
it doesn't have the M88 B35 powerplant but the M30 B35 unit. In Europa it has
218 BHP (non cat) but I'm not sure if that's the same for SA.

Just wanted to share this with you, best regards,
Jeroen

www.bmwe21.net
 
#11 ·
Gustav said:
:confused2

As a regular visitor and a friend of Raymond Woertman I have also seen the post
on that red M-Tech E28 M5.

I don't want to spoil anyones' fun, that's why I pass you my thoughts by e-mail
instead of posting on the board.

E28 chassis 001017 is in fact BMW production number 2001017. That is (according
to ETK) not a M5 but a SA version of the 535i, probably a M535i. So that means
it doesn't have the M88 B35 powerplant but the M30 B35 unit. In Europa it has
218 BHP (non cat) but I'm not sure if that's the same for SA.

Just wanted to share this with you, best regards,
Jeroen

www.bmwe21.net
Thanks for your comments. The car does have the twin-cam, 24-valve, six throttle body engine, and is badged and plated as "M5". If you can, access CAR Magazine, August 1987, page 83, which details the history of the SA build cars and their spec. The engine is rated at 286bhp / 210 kW. Krgds S
 
#14 ·
The VIN on a Motorsport-built car starts "WBS" and not "WBA" because the car was completed at a different factory from a regular E28. An SA-assembled M5 could not have a WBA or WBS identifier because of the internationally-agreed VIN issue methodology - a "W" prefix indicates German assembly.

A 535i would be the nearest equivalent model to any (Euro, US or SA) M5 too, having the highest basic production-line specification, with standard oil cooler as well as all the stuff like electric windows and other "toys".

So, a factory "choice" of a 535i as a base car for an M5 build is logical as it would minimise the number of special parts to be procured from internal factory sources (e.g. engine) and external suppliers (e.g. gearbox with unique ratios) specially for an M5 . This would help keep the build cost down.

I'm not sure what relationship existed then between BMW AG and BMW SA - this may have something to do with what it says on ETK.

To build a Euro (and US) M5, painted and part-trimmed bodyshells were taken off the regular E28 build line at some point for transhipment to the Motorsport plant (it wouldn't have made economic sense to assemble the whole thing from scratch at Motorsport - anyone suitably knowledgeable care to elaborate?).

In the case of (any) SA "completely knocked down" (CKD - though this is a UK term) car, components would probably be delivered by suppliers (internal and external) to a different area of the factory or maybe a different location entirely. It may also be that some components were sourced locally in SA. Parts would be loaded into containers for shipping, not necessarily in complete car sets, as this may not be the most efficient shipping method - can someone out there explain?

In the case of an SA M5, the Motorsport plant would have been "just another supplier" of parts for a CKD car - for the engine, presumably. Stuff like the wheels would come straight from BBS and the transmission from Getrag. Thus what it shows on ETK for this car is reasonably understandable.

Here in the UK, at about £33,000 (the price changed during availability) an M5 cost about £10,000 more than a 535i - the main spec differences were aircon and electric seat adjustment which as extras on a 535i added about £2000. The remainder of the premium clearly wasn't just for the engine (it's not as if an M5 came with an M30 strapped in the trunk just in case!) - it would help cover the additional design, procurement and build costs (e.g. taking a bodyshell off the line, putting it on a truck and taking it a few miles down the road).

Hope this helps - apologies if I am teaching granny to suck eggs.

Regards to all posters

Mfiver
 
#15 ·
Thanks! This is all good stuff, I appreciate it. I see reference to "ETK" ... can someone tell me what this is and how I access it? Krgds S



Mfiver said:
The VIN on a Motorsport-built car starts "WBS" and not "WBA" because the car was completed at a different factory from a regular E28. An SA-assembled M5 could not have a WBA or WBS identifier because of the internationally-agreed VIN issue methodology - a "W" prefix indicates German assembly.

A 535i would be the nearest equivalent model to any (Euro, US or SA) M5 too, having the highest basic production-line specification, with standard oil cooler as well as all the stuff like electric windows and other "toys".

So, a factory "choice" of a 535i as a base car for an M5 build is logical as it would minimise the number of special parts to be procured from internal factory sources (e.g. engine) and external suppliers (e.g. gearbox with unique ratios) specially for an M5 . This would help keep the build cost down.

I'm not sure what relationship existed then between BMW AG and BMW SA - this may have something to do with what it says on ETK.

To build a Euro (and US) M5, painted and part-trimmed bodyshells were taken off the regular E28 build line at some point for transhipment to the Motorsport plant (it wouldn't have made economic sense to assemble the whole thing from scratch at Motorsport - anyone suitably knowledgeable care to elaborate?).

In the case of (any) SA "completely knocked down" (CKD - though this is a UK term) car, components would probably be delivered by suppliers (internal and external) to a different area of the factory or maybe a different location entirely. It may also be that some components were sourced locally in SA. Parts would be loaded into containers for shipping, not necessarily in complete car sets, as this may not be the most efficient shipping method - can someone out there explain?

In the case of an SA M5, the Motorsport plant would have been "just another supplier" of parts for a CKD car - for the engine, presumably. Stuff like the wheels would come straight from BBS and the transmission from Getrag. Thus what it shows on ETK for this car is reasonably understandable.

Here in the UK, at about £33,000 (the price changed during availability) an M5 cost about £10,000 more than a 535i - the main spec differences were aircon and electric seat adjustment which as extras on a 535i added about £2000. The remainder of the premium clearly wasn't just for the engine (it's not as if an M5 came with an M30 strapped in the trunk just in case!) - it would help cover the additional design, procurement and build costs (e.g. taking a bodyshell off the line, putting it on a truck and taking it a few miles down the road).

Hope this helps - apologies if I am teaching granny to suck eggs.

Regards to all posters

Mfiver
 
#16 ·
Stuart,

First of all, congratulations with your car. These are the first pictures I have ever seen from a SA E28 ///M5.

The ETK (a.k.a EPC) is the electronic parts catalogue from BMW. It is a large database with spare parts and every BMW dealer uses it. Like the TIS & HTK, the ETK is copyrighted and protected software, but when you search on ebay, you could get lucky.

In the hands of an enthusiast, the ETK is a very handy tool to do some research. You can enter the cars vehicle information based on type designation, model year or VIN number you can search for spare part order numbers and if you have the pricing information, also it's price. When for instance, you enter the VIN number (the last five digits are enough), the database assigns a model. In any case, the ETK doesn't recognize the SA E28 ///M5 as a model, but recognizes it as a M535i instead. This makes the history and logistics behind the SA E28 ///M5 very interesting. At least new questions arise, like how where the 96 CKD sents. Where they just the M5 specific parts with the chassis being manufactured in the SA plant? Or was the chassis sent as part of the CKD kit? This is something that I will try to find out.
 
#17 ·
Thanks Ryamond. There is an excellent road test on the SA M5/535i in CAR Magazine, August 1987, but unfortunately it doesn't go into the logistics of how the car evolved. It does say the SA market was to be allocated 100 cars per year, but we now know only 96 were ever built. Mine is the fifth car in the line. Looking at the pix of yours (very nice!) they are very similar. These cars are very rare here (we think perhaps four in Australia) so the opportunity to compare a SA built car with a "real" M car is not likely to be easy! It does have the full leather interior, including the dash top. Thanks for the advice on ETK, I'll ask my friendly dealer to show me! Do we consider the car a "real" M5? It was built with the full support of M GmbH, just in another place, and I guess it's relative rarity goes in its favour. I'll take it as it is, a magnificent car much faster than me! Appreciate your comments, kind regards, Stewart

raymond woertman said:
Stuart,

First of all, congratulations with your car. These are the first pictures I have ever seen from a SA E28 ///M5.

The ETK (a.k.a EPC) is the electronic parts catalogue from BMW. It is a large database with spare parts and every BMW dealer uses it. Like the TIS & HTK, the ETK is copyrighted and protected software, but when you search on ebay, you could get lucky.

In the hands of an enthusiast, the ETK is a very handy tool to do some research. You can enter the cars vehicle information based on type designation, model year or VIN number you can search for spare part order numbers and if you have the pricing information, also it's price. When for instance, you enter the VIN number (the last five digits are enough), the database assigns a model. In any case, the ETK doesn't recognize the SA E28 ///M5 as a model, but recognizes it as a M535i instead. This makes the history and logistics behind the SA E28 ///M5 very interesting. At least new questions arise, like how where the 96 CKD sents. Where they just the M5 specific parts with the chassis being manufactured in the SA plant? Or was the chassis sent as part of the CKD kit? This is something that I will try to find out.
 
#18 ·
As Raymond says, some interesting possibilities arise from this.

Taking the issue of SA assembly into the current era, a number of cars are now built in SA for export to other territories - I believe the current Mercedes C-class saloon is a case in point, UK (right hand drive) cars being built there. Presumably it is more economic to build all RHD cars in one place, shipping cars further if necessary.

On the BMW front, a run-out E36 318iS 4-door saloon was built in SA and again these were exported to the UK (spring 1998). These are a bit new and not sufficiently glamorous (no "M" badge) to be considered interesting by enthusiasts but I can't imagine anyone getting too snobby and claiming that it's not a "real" BMW - more likely that it is interesting because of where it was built and that it was a model that otherwise would not have been available in the UK.

Perhaps one day all BMW RHD production will be located in SA?!

Regards

Mfiver
 
#19 ·
I believe most of the E36s that came to Australia were also built in South Africa because of the common right hand drive. Makes sense! Krgds S

Mfiver said:
As Raymond says, some interesting possibilities arise from this.

Taking the issue of SA assembly into the current era, a number of cars are now built in SA for export to other territories - I believe the current Mercedes C-class saloon is a case in point, UK (right hand drive) cars being built there. Presumably it is more economic to build all RHD cars in one place, shipping cars further if necessary.

On the BMW front, a run-out E36 318iS 4-door saloon was built in SA and again these were exported to the UK (spring 1998). These are a bit new and not sufficiently glamorous (no "M" badge) to be considered interesting by enthusiasts but I can't imagine anyone getting too snobby and claiming that it's not a "real" BMW - more likely that it is interesting because of where it was built and that it was a model that otherwise would not have been available in the UK.

Perhaps one day all BMW RHD production will be located in SA?!

Regards

Mfiver
 
#20 · (Edited)
Stewart Garmey said:
Thanks Ryamond. There is an excellent road test on the SA M5/535i in CAR Magazine, August 1987, but unfortunately it doesn't go into the logistics of how the car evolved.
Is it possible for me to get a copy of that article?

Stewart Garmey said:
It does say the SA market was to be allocated 100 cars per year, but we now know only 96 were ever built.
But that is to our fortune as we own one of the rarest M cars ever. Granted, total production was 2145 +96CKD, but 1350 where US spec with the S38B35 engine instead of the M88/3. There where only 588 LHD and 177 (or 178) RHD (exact figure never became clear to me) examples build with the M88/3 non catalyst engine. Added to that are the 96 SA cars, what makes the E28 ///M5 a very rare car indeed.

Stewart Garmey said:
Looking at the pix of yours (very nice!) they are very similar.
Thanks. But whereas your car has the M-technik bodykit, mine has to do without. But I like the stealth appearance of the standard E28 (chrome) bumpers and trim as there are very few people who realize what the car really is.

Whereas my E34 has to work hard when I drive it, I use the E28 with caution. The E34regularl sees the Nordschleife, but i wouldn't risk my E28 in those conditions. I just drive it two or three times per year on a summer evening whn traffic is low.

Stewart Garmey said:
These cars are very rare here (we think perhaps four in Australia) so the opportunity to compare a SA built car with a "real" M car is not likely to be easy!
Are these all SA cars or where some of them imported from the UK?

Stewart Garmey said:
Do we consider the car a "real" M5? It was built with the full support of M GmbH, just in another place, and I guess it's relative rarity goes in its favour.
Yes, the SA ///M5 is the real McCoy. The logic behind the cars VIN numbering has yet to be revealed, but more interesting cars came from SA, like the E21 333i, the E23 745i and the E12 ///M530. I am certain that the ETK doesn't recognize some of these as well. This doesn't really surprize me as the ETK system was develloped more then a decade later and certainly doesn't include all niche models that had a special production status.

I will dig the issue of the SA cars in the 'Grosse M kronik' of Edition Weiss Blau. It includes the production numbers and VIN numbers of all ///M cars.

Rgrds,

Raymond
 
#21 · (Edited)
raymond woertman said:
Yes, the SA ///M5 is the real McCoy. The logic behind the cars VIN numbering has yet to be revealed, but more interesting cars came from SA, like the E21 333i, the E23 745i and the E12 ///M530. I am certain that the ETK doesn't recognize some of these as well. This doesn't really surprize me as the ETK system was develloped more then a decade later and certainly doesn't include all niche models that had a special production status.
I believe you are correct that the SA //M5 is a real Motorsport car. As are arguably the 333i and the SA 745i.

One small correction - the 333i was based on the E30 chassis.

I will dig the issue of the SA cars in the 'Grosse M kronik' of Edition Weiss Blau. It includes the production numbers and VIN numbers of all ///M cars.
That would be very interesting. They are also mentioned in the BMW M-series and Performance Specials book.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Steward,

'Die Grosse M Kronik' lists the E28 M5 SA as a seperate model (DC98). The VIN range for the 96 cars is 2001013-2001108.

Your '001017' is the fifth in the line, which makes sense as it is 5/96 :1:

Foreseen VIN range for the SA E28 ///M5 was 2001000-2001500. But according to the author of that book, the SA variant (DC98) was build from 03/1987 untill 06/1988, which means that according to your figure of 100pcs per year, BMW SA had the capacity to build ~125 cars. For a low production model that costed 110k rand, 96 cars sold isn't that bad at all.

Rgrds,

Raymond

BTW: Attached you find a picture of my car that I shot yesterday evening at ~9.00PM.
 

Attachments

#50 · (Edited)
This thread has me excited...

Firstly because the E28 M5 that is the subject is a truly lovely looking car! congratulations to the owner... have you still got it?

Secondly, because I recently bought an SA manufactured E34 M5 in Ice White, chassis number OBB77054, and I'm dying to find out some history about it. It was imported and registered in the UK in 1992, but no luck with getting any history from BMW uk dealers (so far anyway ;)).

raymondw - you mentioned "Die Grosse M Kronik" (quote below) and found information that opened doors re: the E28 M5, could you possibly help me with my my M5? or perhaps give me a few hints as to how to find out more?
(this is my first BMW, still learning, only 3 weeks into ownership).

Thanks,
Jamie

Steward,

'Die Grosse M Kronik' lists the E28 M5 SA as a seperate model (DC98). The VIN range for the 96 cars is 2001013-2001108.

Your '001017' is the fifth in the line, which makes sense as it is 5/96 :1:

Foreseen VIN range for the SA E28 ///M5 was 2001000-2001500. But according to the author of that book, the SA variant (DC98) was build from 03/1987 untill 06/1988, which means that according to your figure of 100pcs per year, BMW SA had the capacity to build ~125 cars. For a low production model that costed 110k rand, 96 cars sold isn't that bad at all.

Rgrds,

Raymond

BTW: Attached you find a picture of my car that I shot yesterday evening at ~9.00PM.
 
#26 ·
Send me your fax number and I'll fax it to you. With pleasure!

raymond woertman said:
Is it possible for me to get a copy of that article?



But that is to our fortune as we own one of the rarest M cars ever. Granted, total production was 2145 +96CKD, but 1350 where US spec with the S38B35 engine instead of the M88/3. There where only 588 LHD and 177 (or 178) RHD (exact figure never became clear to me) examples build with the M88/3 non catalyst engine. Added to that are the 96 SA cars, what makes the E28 ///M5 a very rare car indeed.



Thanks. But whereas your car has the M-technik bodykit, mine has to do without. But I like the stealth appearance of the standard E28 (chrome) bumpers and trim as there are very few people who realize what the car really is.

Whereas my E34 has to work hard when I drive it, I use the E28 with caution. The E34regularl sees the Nordschleife, but i wouldn't risk my E28 in those conditions. I just drive it two or three times per year on a summer evening whn traffic is low.

I know how you feel mine only comes out occasionally. At 45k klms, it's too good to use all the time, and too good not to!!

Are these all SA cars or where some of them imported from the UK?

Mine is the only SA car we know of. It was privately imported by a SA businesman who emigrated in 1996 with 36k klms on it. There is a rumour he brought a matching E30 M3 with it.

Yes, the SA ///M5 is the real McCoy. The logic behind the cars VIN numbering has yet to be revealed, but more interesting cars came from SA, like the E21 333i, the E23 745i and the E12 ///M530. I am certain that the ETK doesn't recognize some of these as well. This doesn't really surprize me as the ETK system was develloped more then a decade later and certainly doesn't include all niche models that had a special production status.

I will dig the issue of the SA cars in the 'Grosse M kronik' of Edition Weiss Blau. It includes the production numbers and VIN numbers of all ///M cars.

There are a few M745i models here, a very serious car! Cheers Raymond, S

Rgrds,

Raymond
 
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