Stop Chris Bangle Petition....

Wrong URL

I made an *** out of myself, I've edited the petition, please resign. Because of a stupid mistake, the petition was to BWM, not BMW, :). Here's the new one;

STOPCB (http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/petition.html)

Come on guys, there are thousands of members here. We can do better than 19 signatures....

Are you allowed to sign more than once?

Robert

Ahahah;

Officially No, ;).

Let me point out the obvious. BMW can gives a rats ***** about your petition. They are a business and have surely done their marketing and survey. So They will not care for whatever (and perhaps bogus) petitions you can come up with. Remember, they are not running a political office. The only thing they care for here is $$$.

In short, the only vote that is going to count is VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET.


beewang

Does this mean that I can sign twice if I type with my wallet?Kind of akward but i'll do it.

Robeifdoplöjlt:confused:

Humm that really doesn't make any sense. Because see it is an opinion poll, if people don't like it, then they obviously wont buy it. So far BMW will lose 29 current BMW customers, once that number grows they will see that they'll lose a lot of customers, and that people really don't like the car.

This poll will not cost BMW anything (all they have to do is stop him, and then everyone who signed will be happy), they only stand to gain a better understanding of the opinion of BMW fans, before they start losing money by allowing Bangle to design more BMWs.

Yes I'm sure they conducted they own surveys, but have you ever see one saying "Do you like the new 7?" or "Does this design suck or what?". Which is what they need to do, blatant flat out questions, Like or Don't like. I have yet to see such types of surveys.

"perhaps bogus" how can a user created petition be bogus?

LOL, Luxo

Done.

I signed...http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/contrib/blackeye/2ar15smilie.gif

Also Done!!

Thanks guys, be sure to spread the word. So far 52 signatures in 24 hours. Hopefully we'll be able to show BMW our united opinion [it sucks] of the new 7. All we have to do is keep up this pace.

Acually...they haven't really lost any of you guys yet...cause i assume that there are less than about 5% of you that own a 7 series...Mabey the old giesers like the new 7? But they are risking losing business by letting him continue to re-model the BMW cars because you and me are the people that will buy the 5 series.

Hey ///MorePower... I think you should reedit your first message and delete the first link so others wont make the same mistake... I accidently went there and signed the first petition...

I just tried to edit it, but it said the limit has expired, and to contact an admin.

Any admins out there feel free to delete my second post, and update the link in the first post to

http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPCB/

Thanks

Done, anmd having spent over an hour with the new 7 I wish I could sig it all day.....:( :(

Done !
Lets go peolpe only 64 !!!!

Mattar: Nope you signed the wrong one... just like several of us... including me... :) scroll up and sign it again... the link is fixed now...

84, WOW we're doing great. It seems like once someone finds out about it they sign it, humm says something doesn't it.....

By the way, thanks for editing it for me Greg :).

*punt*

Just notified BMW NA, keep signing. Because they're looking now.

I hope the people at BMW can read better than they can design :D

Yep just signed I hope this poll helps :)

Only 129 so far. Let's keep it going.

They called me today, but unfortunately I wasn't able to catch the call myself. It was someone named Lisa at BMW NA, however she didn't leave an extension number. I was told that the message consisted of "we're looking into it" so lets wait and see.

Sigs to date, 135.

Anyone have contacts at a car mag, so we could get a news blip put in?

Done:)

This calculation is based upon a lot of assumptions, but as of the last time I checked there were 137 signatures. If you multiply that by an amount that is close to what they sell M5's for (say for the sake of argument $72,000) then almost $10,000,000 in potential revenue is on the line. And every 139 signautures raises that amount by $10,000,000.

If they can do the math then that should get their attention.

///MorePower:

Did you ever catch up with anyone from BMWNA? You had indicated earlier that you were playing phone tag with someone name Lisa.

There have been 280 signatures of the petition so far. Well 279 actually. Someone signed the thing and in the comments field said they liked the new design. :rolleyes:

Over 1000 votes :cheers:

Over 1000 :), but BMW would never admit screwing up, in less those 1000 where outside their doors with pitch forks. .... Who's with me! ;)

It's nice to see that they know about it, and are acknowledging it's existence. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the 5 looks like, hopefully we wont need the pitch forks. You think I'm kidding? :rolleyes:

I was the 1080th signature.

1086, Let's keep it going. Unfortunately, even if this succeeds we cannot change the design of the next 5, 6,1, and Z, they are to far along. We can only hope to correct the designs that are 3-4 years in the future. I would like nothing more than to get rid of Bangle.:mad:

1087!! Wait a minute... is this the same one that was posted in the E60 forum?? Ops.. I signed it again! LOL


Oh SNAP!!! I just realized I already posted in this thread saying I signed it already!!! What the... :rolleyes: Alright... whos the wise crack that brought an old thread back up to confuse me.:grrrrr: J/K I'll gladly take back the double posts if i can. :biggrin:

The dynamics of modern democracy. I love it.

Just to let you know there was a 1 pager on the petition to have Bangle fired in one of the French car magazines. It was part of a bigger review of BMW future product launches. This thing is making some noise ! Well done to all those involved, even if they don't fire him they will listen and he will s&%¤t in his pence.


Yeah that petition was in Autocar a couple of weeks back..basically i hope it pushes to make the new five look really good..


and in interviews with the Maketing director:


European media reports have caned the 7 Series and referred to the nervousness of the BMW board in its wake. There is even a petition on the internet calling for design chief Chris Bangle to resign. Nevertheless, Dr Ganal remains publicly confident about BMW's styling direction

and it was started by ///MorePower at bmwm5.com. Good work!




Mentioned in Danish BMW club:

http://www.bmw-club.dk/Nyheder/SenesteNyt/detalje.asp?ID=228

I'm number 1855. Hope this helps. Bangle should be working on the next Aztek.

Guys it will be in 2 years at least that we will know if the new 7 series is successful or not, I feel it will be since most people already grew onto the look of the new 7. The new 5 Series will look similar and don't you forget about that, it's coming up in 2004 and BMW is not going to change their mind you should be sure of that. Besides, the 7 series has great sales going on in Asia and North America however in Europe the sales are lagging.

If this is how the new 5 Series will look like, I can honestly say it does not look bad, it looks great compared to the boring crap Mercedes is putting out.

http://www.auto.t-online.de/AU/DE/de/contentrepositories/DE_de_News_carReportRepositoryXML/images/Bild1/BMW5er_Retouche_Montage_148.1021473307651.2.jpg

My fellow Bimmer heads,
I actually kinda like the new 5 series. My problem is must they all look the same? The 5 is nothing more than a smaller 7, and the 3 well that's a compacted version of the 7. Mr. Bangle life does not revolve around the new 7. BMW has always offered variety, from sport to economy and the models always looked different. That was the beautiful part of it.
I'm actually thinking about buying another car.

Steven
'90 M5

I don't understand what the problem is witht the design? It's a little bland like all news cars now, but that is what is so cool about the M5, a wolf in sheeps clothing. :)

Originally posted by BMW_7
I can honestly say it does not look bad, it looks great compared to the boring crap Mercedes is putting out.


Sorry... But i much prefer the borring crap that Merc is putting out right now the New SL!! the C class the New E, yes they all look very similar but they all look good IMO! the new face lift of the S class i dont like... I like the current S class. ML i just dont like, too plain. The E65... Its waaaay out there... doenst look like a BMW at all... dont like it! have seen it many times... I thought I would grow into it... but I still havent... :crying:

2238 Signatures. Great work ///MorePower!. It is great to see that so many people share my opinions on these new designs. There are some really well-thought-out signatures in there.

I will say that I flat out hate these designs, at least for BMW. This is my favorite car company in the world and they are throwing it all down the toilet! Sorry for the rant but I am a bit tired of being civilized. Since I can remember there has always been a BMW in the family and all of this really hits home.

Andrew

I have not warmed to the 7-series shape, the bustle-butt I can live with but the taillights are cheesy and that nose...damn, that tall, ponderous nose is awful.

The Z4 looks pretty awful in pics, too.

Steven:

Did you ever look at BMWs history in the last - let's say 20 years? E12, E23, E24, E28 - all the same design philosophy. E30, E32, E34 - the same look (try to distinguish between a E32 and E34 appearing in your rear mirror...). With the newer models E36, E38, E39 and E46 there seemed to be quite a difference, even though they share many design ideas.


Rgds,
Dominik (who loves classic BMWs)

I doubt that less than 1% of the signees would even consider a 7 series. And let's say they lose 10 or 100 or 1000 customers for the new M5. Here's my bet. They'll be 10 or 100 or 1000 new customers who can't wait to get their hands on the hot new car.

By the way, I'm not an old Geezer, I own more hot cars than just about anyone I know, and I think the new 7 series is gorgeous. I don't have one right now, because I'm waiting for the sports package, to come out with the '03's.

One last thing. These designs will be award winners--first amongst the designers and more importantly amongst the customers. You all want the E39 around for another 50 years. Well, frankly I don't. I want a new design, and I'm sick and tired of the rounded shapes used in cars these days. Time to move on, and the new designs are perfect.

I wish you guys showed more enthusiasm about something more important. How about making certain George Bush, Mr. I haven't got a clue about the economy, is not re-elected.

Originally posted by orangemarlin
I doubt that less than 1% of the signees would even consider a 7 series. And let's say they lose 10 or 100 or 1000 customers for the new M5. Here's my bet. They'll be 10 or 100 or 1000 new customers who can't wait to get their hands on the hot new car.

By the way, I'm not an old Geezer, I own more hot cars than just about anyone I know, and I think the new 7 series is gorgeous. I don't have one right now, because I'm waiting for the sports package, to come out with the '03's.

One last thing. These designs will be award winners--first amongst the designers and more importantly amongst the customers. You all want the E39 around for another 50 years. Well, frankly I don't. I want a new design, and I'm sick and tired of the rounded shapes used in cars these days. Time to move on, and the new designs are perfect.

I wish you guys showed more enthusiasm about something more important. How about making certain George Bush, Mr. I haven't got a clue about the economy, is not re-elected.

I agree with you that the petition is useless, and that progress is a good thing.

However, the 7 series in my opinion is still a disaster. No I'm not talking about the subjective appearance but rather, its poor technical design from a driver/engineer's point of view. I wanted to like the car, I ordered it after serious debates on the options and color combinations, spent hours behind the wheel learning all the tricks but still decided to dump it. Why? To name a few:

1. Tedious electronic seat adjusters having to press 3 sets of buttons located at an odd location to adjust seat angles, with the possessed headrest moving up and down beyond your control.

2. Poorly designed gear shift. Having to press a button on the steering wheel before one can downshift with the inconveniently located gear shift lever. Forget about that quick and easy downshift. As far as the transmission goes, I find my Mercedes or Audi far sportier with the lower gear at my finger tip.

3. Slow iDrive. Yes, that annoying one second pause between screens is dangerous and pathetic. Not only does it take your eyes off the road, it makes it hard for one to learn and remember the layers of screens hidden. And I'm a serious gadget freak running macros on all my software knowing all the functions on my cell phone and I still hated iDrive. The system needs a faster processor.

Sure there are things to like about the car like its handling, quietness, headroom, value for money (if you can accept its huge depreciation) but obviously BMW has lost its vision trying too hard to be different, injecting complicated but useless technology into the new 7. For example, with the separate returning motor on the wiper system it's still as noisy as before so what's the point?!

No, I don't like the 7 series and I'm not going to sign the stupid petition. However, my point is that no matter how many awards it wins, whether lucky folks like yourself (who claims to own more hot cars than anyone else you know) like it or not will not change my mind. It has poor ergonomics and it's a disaster. Its appearance is really the least of my concerns.

And this is not the place to discuss politics.

I agree with the post above. This is certainly not the place to discuss politics as this is a forum to discuss the BMW M5, not President Bush. Please keep your opinions to yourself, I don't have any desire to get into an argument but I don't like arrogant comments that offend me, like your political statements marlin.

orangemarlin, sorry but I think your post is a little off-base. That is great that you feel the need to defend your purchase, but you fail to address any of the complaints that have been stated about the new seven. Saying that it will win all kinds of awards doesnt really prove much and doesnt change the fact that so many people dislike the new design.

I doubt that less than 1% of the signees would even consider a 7 series.

This is probably true, but it is beside the point. The seven series will obviously serve as a base for the next 5-series, 3-series, etc. Those of us who dislike the seven series arent worrying about the Seven in particular. We are worried that future BMWs will share its overall design and appearance.

One last thing. These designs will be award winners--first amongst the designers and more importantly amongst the customers. You all want the E39 around for another 50 years. Well, frankly I don't. I want a new design, and I'm sick and tired of the rounded shapes used in cars these days. Time to move on, and the new designs are perfect.

Thats all great, BUT that is your opinion and there are at least 2841 other people (besides myself) who disagree with you. If the new designs were in fact perfect then there wouldnt be so much contraversy surrounding them, and Chris Bangle wouldn't have to work so hard to defend them. I am not against change. The e39 was a significant change from the e34. I just feel that this recent change at BMW is for the worse. They can do much better than this.

Andrew

Isn't the fundamental problem that Spangle is trying to turn the BMW range into the automotive equivalent of Versace - fundamentally great products, but they can never resist mucking them up with garish details. grrrrrrr

The 7 series is much like this - great engineering, on the whole, but the details are so criminally wrong in so many ways... yes, it looks terribly imposing, but then so did shoulder-pads, i daresay. I can almost see what they were getting at with the overall design when I look at the Li versions, but it really is clumsy.

I fear for the 6 series design, if it's going to be a cross between the E65 and the (crass) Z9. If it's half-decent looking, I'll buy an M6, as I'm sure it will be excellent to drive. On the other hand, if idiot-boy messes it up, I (and many others) will go elsewhere...

I wish I could say that we should all short the stock if the 5 looks like a dog's dinner, too, but unfortunately, I hear that the 7 is proving very popular in the US...

BRING BACK WOLFGANG REITZLE!!!!! (I know he wasn't a designer, but I get the sense he understood subtlety in design)

Originally posted by Andrew2.8L
If the new designs were in fact perfect then there wouldnt be so much contraversy surrounding them, and Chris Bangle wouldn't have to work so hard to defend them.

Andrew

Well if someone hates something very much, someone loves it. It is just like music, I don't like country, but I don't make petitions to stop people making more country music.. :rolleyes:

What I meant to say, if you make design that everybody likes, then maybe no one loves it.

What if people would stop making the music you like and make country instead? :D

I was behind a new 7 yesterday, and from the low point of view from inside an 8 series it looked even more ugly.

Stop Chris Bangle!

...Mike

I guess I just don't completely "get it." Ban Bangle?

The new Seven definitely takes some getting used to, and a bit of head-scratching is probably justified (i.e. was that bloated trunk line something we were honestly supposed to find attractive?), but I'm not altogether convinced that Mr. Bangle is incapable of delivering worthy successors to the Bimmers we've come to know and love.

Sure, some adjustments are probably going to be required along the way, but there's always hope. Most of the derogatory observations I've seen so far seem to stem from a single model, which -- for better or for worse -- I would still be quite happy to drive. If it's a true BMW on the inside, I can probably overlook a bit of overreaching on the outside. We may not love the results we have seen so far, but "this too shall pass."

Haven't ANY of the most recent prototypes and/or design composites fired the imagination just a bit? I'm not suggesting that the collective assessment represented in this thread is wrong; only that we seem to be doing an awfully lot of hand-wringing over facts which are not yet in evidence; after all, the new Five hasn't even come out yet. Call me foolish, but some of the ///M5 Photoshop concepts I've seen actually gave rise to unbridled optimism.

Don't mean to stir the waters, gentlemen ... I'm just trying to understand all of the backlash. It still seems a bit early to be calling for a crucifixion.

Chuck

There are alot of second hand E65s for sale in Germany. Many of the 6-8 month old 745s have an asking price as low as EUR63000. Typical milage 12000 kilometers. Even at BMW main dealers they are starting at EUR 65000. This means that these cars have depreciated over 30 percent from their typical new price of above EUR 90000 in 8 months. There are even some late 2001 E38s that are more expensive.

I wonder what these cars will cost when they are two years old? EUR 20000?

Regards/Robert

Pretty funny thread. Only place the new 7 sales are down is in Europe..... Otherwise its better than expected. So basically your saying stop a profitable product :hihi:

Pretty intresting conclusion. The sales in europe are almost non existant. The first months in the US the sales figures looked ok compared to the last seven. Asian members have posted about low intrest overthere. None of this in itself says anything about the sevens profitability. Slower sales everywhere except in the US must mean that the total sales around the world are down. Heavy discounting everywhere 90% of buyers in Germany didn't pay listprice and 10% seems to be the nomal discount in Europe(and in the US)?. I would guess that this means that the product isn't as profitable as BMW had hoped it would be but for anyone too know if it's profitable you must know also know the manufacturingcosts and the development cost.

Regards/Robert:)

Originally posted by Finality
Pretty funny thread. Only place the new 7 sales are down is in Europe..... Otherwise its better than expected. So basically your saying stop a profitable product :hihi:

Your right after all what does BMW corporate know :blink:

With a total of 23,766 units of the new BMW
7 Series (currently available only in two eight-cylinder
gasoline fuelled versions)sold worldwide during the
first half of 2002,the 7 Series is ahead of expectations.
In the eight month period since launch,the sales vo-
lume of the new 7 Series is 14.0%above that of the
predecessor model for the equivalent period.The
BMW Group expects sales of this model to gain even
more momentum when the diesel versions 730d and
740d are launched in autumn 2002.

Taken off page 6:

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/2_investor_relations/2_2_publikationen/2_2_3_zwischenbericht_0602/bmwgroup_q2002_englisch.pdf

I would stop listening to what the local 'Bangle' haters have to say about the 7 and start paying attention to the real world.

A few interesting quotes that people left, (FYI we're up to 3087):

The comment "leaders take people where they don't want to go" makes me think of some sort of arrogant,self absorbtion. If your paying over $70,000 for a car,it should appeal to the eye---William K. Crane Jr. (#3078)

It's not that he's bad, it's just that BMW has a reputation to uphold, and making saloons that look as if an Alfa has accidentally driven into the boot of a Buick isn't upholding tradition.---Ryan McManus (#3069)

The new designs, especially the Z4, are very front-heavy with poor lines, very uncharacteristic of the balanced power exuded by previous body styles. I own a 2002 M3, and am looking forward to the M6. If it looks ANYTHING like what is going on in the newer designs, I will abandon BMW regardless of the driving experience.---Paul Miller (#2991)

I can only remember the ugly Ford Scorpio in Germany years ago, where the same petition would have made sense! The Designer Uwe Bahnsen (a german) has told the same fairy tales about the future design styles. Finally the Ford Scorpio sold very badly and t---Roger Zepernick (#2953)

I cant help but laugh at the morons who signed the petition over and over again, with positive remarks about the design (or just stupid spam), all they do is add to the total number of signatures, while making themselves look like little kids.:rolleyes:

So have we gotten Bangle fired yet? someone tell me yes...

if not LIE TO ME AND SAY YES!

Originally posted by UCSDxB0i
So have we gotten Bangle fired yet? someone tell me yes...

if not LIE TO ME AND SAY YES!

err...Yes!! But bad news...tfung has gone off the deep end!! :p

Originally posted by Hutzal


err...Yes!! But bad news...tfung has gone off the deep end!! :p

Hehe, I dedicate my avatar to all you Bangle-haters!

Thanks! Fortunatly it looks better in the dark.

Regards/Robert:)

Originally posted by 53C


Hehe, I dedicate my avatar to all you Bangle-haters!

I bought a new 735i in March of this year (2002) it had EDC-K and Dynamic Drive plus 19inch rims and a bunch of other options. It has been in for problems/ malfunctions 6 times in 5 months. This car was an utter disapointment.

I have just traded it for a 2000 M5.

Dealers will NOT buy this car - they cannot even shift their Demo cars, I have seen exdemo cars with 5k miles on listed at 30% below list!!

This car is a disaster. I have tried it... I was brave.. I was wrong.

I am hoping the M5 is a more enjoyable car to own.

grrrrrrr FWIW, I filled up at a gas station in Woodcliff Lake tonight. There was a BMW employee gassing up a new Z4. I asked him to oblige me by sending Chris Bangle to the Eternal Care Unit. He laughed, then asked me what I thought of that Z4. I wanted to enumerate the overwraught, pseudostylized mistakes in the car, but instead just replied with a simple, "HATE IT!" Maybe someone in the corporate HQ is starting to get it.:sad1:

I completely agree with those who dislike the 7. I do not mind the changes on the inside, but the exterior is really messed up.

I am not a big fan of the Zs in general and I will not buy the Z4.
HOWEVER, I must admit that the the Z4 does look better than the Z3.

Hey London,

I went to the dealership in Oz a few weeks ago expressing interest in an M5. They were calculating a deal on a trade, and would get back to me..

The next day I got a letter saying that I could virtually write my own deal on the 7's they had their. It actually saod that they would be willing to do amazing things to make it happen.

This doesn't sound like a big seller. It sounds like something they are super anxious to offload. So they'll so everything to get you into one, and I'll bet nothing to get you back out of one.

And guess what? They are still their. :oh: I'd reckon they'll drop even more as they are about to have a Birthday.:cheers:

Whilst tempting I highly doubt it will happen. Whereas I would jump at a deal 1/3 as good on an M5, but they don't seem to be offering those.hmmm hmmm

Strange Huh.

Yes, the new 7 series bmw is crap not because of how it looks because I kinda like it but how it is built. My uncle just got his and had it for about 4 months and it must have been at the dealer 6 or 7 times. Also the guy I work with sold his and lost almost $15,000 he got a S8 audi.

The equivalent period? Is that meant the year before? Then it's utterly disappointing since the E38 was an outgoing model.


Originally posted by Finality
Your right after all what does BMW corporate know :blink:

With a total of 23,766 units of the new BMW
7 Series (currently available only in two eight-cylinder
gasoline fuelled versions)sold worldwide during the
first half of 2002,the 7 Series is ahead of expectations.
In the eight month period since launch,the sales vo-
lume of the new 7 Series is 14.0%above that of the
predecessor model for the equivalent period.The
BMW Group expects sales of this model to gain even
more momentum when the diesel versions 730d and
740d are launched in autumn 2002.

Taken off page 6:

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/2_investor_relations/2_2_publikationen/2_2_3_zwischenbericht_0602/bmwgroup_q2002_englisch.pdf

I would stop listening to what the local 'Bangle' haters have to say about the 7 and start paying attention to the real world.

What is BMW doing these days? I've never heard good stories about their 7 series, especially ones w/ V12 engines. I remember reading a web page out there, detailing how a 760 owner had to spent almost the cost of the vehicle for maintanence ... scary.

As for the Z4, I agree that it looks better than the Z3. However ... it leaves much to be desired. Personally, I think the hood of the vehicle could've had more definition, e.g. X5, M5, M3. Also, those buggy eyes and protuding side signal blinkers drive me nuts.

However ... I must disagree w/ blaming all this on Bangle. Like the wiseman said, behind any funny monkey there's an goofy idiot. I think that the executive board of BMW should sit down and rethink their approach for year 2003 or even 2004. If they continue the way it is today ... I don't see how BMW could have a future.

:cheers:

BMW couldn't care less about your petition. Its worth about two squirts of horse piss in a bucket.

All I see is a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks around here...Like you guys really know whats best for BMW...gimme a break.

Bangle is bad to the bone. He's got balls for sure...

Isn't the customer always king? Although majority here arent interested in the 7 series but the upcoming 5 series.

In anycase the poll got a lot of publicity thats a fact. Whetehr or not BMW do something thats for the future to tell.

Originally posted by M1
BMW couldn't care less about your petition. Its worth about two squirts of horse piss in a bucket.

All I see is a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks around here...Like you guys really know whats best for BMW...gimme a break.

Bangle is bad to the bone. He's got balls for sure...

Thank you for your eloquent post.

Balls or not, many people seem to believe BMW could have done better. As for caring only BMW knows if they do or not. One thing is for sure, this poll has gotten publicity in almost every newspaper, general interest and automotive magazine in the world. Publicity I am willing to bet BMW wishes they hadn't recieved.

Regards/Robert


Originally posted by M1
BMW couldn't care less about your petition. Its worth about two squirts of horse piss in a bucket.

All I see is a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks around here...Like you guys really know whats best for BMW...gimme a break.

Bangle is bad to the bone. He's got balls for sure...

Yeah yeah, I know, the horse piss thing isn't very nice, my bad, sorry Gustav.

Anyway...The fact that this petition has received so much press is not necessarily a bad thing. In general, any kind of media attention, whether it be good or bad is, is a good thing...

Bad press is good press. Not only that, it's free.

I guess your not in the PR business? Most companies and organizations try to avoid bad publicity. I think it might have something to do with the fact that people put a lot of faith in the press and many times base their purchasing habits on things they read. I am willing to bet that bad publicity has never sold a car. Or anything else. Are hurricanes good advertizing for Miami? Robberies in Central Park for New York? Fat related classaction suits for McDonalds? I bet they would be happier without it.

Regards/Robert

Originally posted by M1
Yeah yeah, I know, the horse piss thing isn't very nice, my bad, sorry Gustav.

Anyway...The fact that this petition has received so much press is not necessarily a bad thing. In general, any kind of media attention, whether it be good or bad is, is a good thing...

Bad press is good press. Not only that, it's free.

I agree, hurricanes keep people from moving to Miami...Robberies do keep people out of Central Park, at night. Though fat people will still eat at McDonalds...

The car thing is different...People's opinions on style are subjective. Doesn't take a certain kind of size, speed, shape of a hurricane to tell people that they are bad. Doesn't matter whether an earthquake is 4.0 or 6.0, still bad.

The bad press that the new BMW's are receiving has been opening the eyes of new buyers. They wonder what all the wanking is all about, and when they see the cars for themselves, they go,"**** thats a pretty good lookin' car, its different, I might now consider buying a BMW." So sell the Lexus/Merc or whatever and new 7, 5, Z is now parked in the driveway. I see it happening all over the place.

The old guard doesn't like Bangle's designs. Fine then. I think its a refreshing move on BMW's part...they are clearly trying to separate themselves from the rest. Take the trunk thing, when the new 7 came out, everyone lost their pantyhose over it, but now its becoming more prevalent in current designs (Mercedes Maybach).

Its just business as usual, just wait and see. BMW can't just sit around on its laurels and keep selling their cars to the same old people. This is a strategic move on their part and they will win in the end. You are right, I am not in the PR business...Are you in the business of manufacturing high-end German automobiles? If you are then I stand corrected and you are the expert.

Doesn't matter anyway, most of the guys that signed up for this petition will be eating crow by the time the new M5 shows up. I only regret getting into this debate the way I did, not very eloquent as my freind Robert might say, I just got a little hot under the collar. I still feel the same way about petition though...

I wouldn't mind BMW compleatly changing their design theme if they were having a crises and the cars didn't sell at all. In a time of need desperate actions might be necessary. For the last four decades BMW sales have risen constantly and are now at record levels. Either faithfull BMW drivers have been accumulating ever larger collections of their favourite brand or somehow they have been able to attract new buyers using "the same old boring design theme". There are many examples of companies ruining their business by scraping what made them succesfull and instead launching the New New thing hoping to attract masses of new customers. Companies that enjoy longterm success usually do so by playing to the tastes of their existing clients while still keeping the product up to date with evolutionary development. I think that BMW has been very good at this throughout it's history. That said I can't say that I think that the E12->E28->E34->E39 or the E21->E30->E36->E46 modelchanges have been overly cautious. Most new BMW models to this date have been a large step forward design- and engineeringwise. I personally like the basic design of the E65 but I think they could have done much better. I havn't seen any S-classes accumulating in the preowned departments of BMW dealers. A large part of their floorspace is taken up by E65s with stickerprices that have been continously dropping for the time they have been standing there(almost half a year in some/most cases).

The salesmen must be wishing that BMW managment had been listening to our petition. They did not have to go through this with the E38.

Regards/Robert

Ps. And no, I dont build german cars for a living. And Coca-Cola were pretty good at making Coke but the still replaced it with "New Coke" to attract Pepsi buyers. That they managed to do. Does that mean New Coke was succesfull?? Ds

grrrrrrr

We should ask for the resigniton of ALL BMW top executives, not just Chris Bangle alone.. then they will listen to what we say

:blabla:

Originally posted by WarpSpeeD

We should ask for the resigniton of ALL BMW top executives, not just Chris Bangle alone.. then they will listen to what we say



BMW Group increase revenues to 42,282 million

As announced in the letter to shareholders, total revenues rose by 9.9% to euro 42,282 million in 2002 (2001: euro 38,463 million). Revenues of the Automobiles segment increased by 13.8% to euro 38,179 million (2001: euro 33,542 million) and those of the Motorcycles segment by 6.7% to euro 1,130 million (2001: euro 1,059 million). The Financial Services segment recorded a 9.3% increase in revenues to reach euro 8,213 million (2001: euro 7,514 million).

The BMW Group sold more than one million BMW and MINI cars in 2002 for the first time in a single year. In total, the BMW Group sold 1,057,344 units, 16.7% more than in the previous year (905.657 units). As previously announced, the BMW Group was able to improve earnings yet again in 2002 on the back of this dynamic sales performance, thus surpassing the previous year's record results.

Automobile production increased again

The BMW Group increased automobile production by 15.2% to 1,090,258 units (2001: 946,730). This includes 930,221 BMW cars (2001: 904,335) manufactured in the plants in Munich, Dingolfing, Regensburg, Spartanburg and Rosslyn as well as at the group's assembly plants, 2.9% more than in the previous year. In addition, 160,037 MINI cars (2001: 42,395) were manufactured at the Oxford plant.

The full range of flexible work-time models were used and additional shifts worked in order to meet the strong demand.

More than 5,000 new jobs created

As a result of the strong performance, the BMW Group created 5,132 new jobs in 2002 mainly in development, production and sales. This represents an increase of 5.3%. As at 31 December 2002, the BMW Group had a worldwide workforce of 101,395 employees. After adjusting for disposals and transfers of group companies, the equivalent headcount at the end of 2001 was 96,263 employees. Approximately three-quarters of the BMW Group workforce are employed in Germany. The headcount in Germany rose by 3,280 employees to 76,143, an increase of 4.5%.

The BMW Group recruited another 370 apprentices in 2002 and the total number of apprentices went up by 9.7%. At present, almost 4,200 young people are learning a profession with the BMW Group.

Capital expenditure increased significantly

In 2002, the BMW Group invested euro 3,185 million in property, plant and equipment and intangible assets. In addition, euro 858 million of expenditure for research and development have been recognised as assets in accordance with IAS, so that total capital expenditure amounted to euro 4,043 million (2001: euro 3,516 million).

Outlook for 2003

The world's three main sales regions (North America, Europe, Japan) are not expected to perform consistently in 2003. The BMW Group forecasts that more dynamic economic growth will not be seen until the second half of the year at the earliest. The effects on business of the current tense global political situation remain incalculable.

Overall, the BMW Group forecasts that it will continue to perform successfully in 2003. In the words of Dr. Helmut Panke, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG: "With the current product and market offensive gathering momentum, the financial year 2003 will be one of the most important in the history of our enterprise. We will launch more new products in 2003 than in any previous year. We will continue to finance capital expenditure out of cash flow even during this phase of expansion and thus, once again, demonstrate the underlying strength of the BMW Group."

I believe the above articles speak for themselves.

Furthermore, I am pretty confident in saying that Bangle & Co. aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Can't argue with the numbers folks.

Sorry.

:hihi:

DF7, I don't see any numbers on the 7 series. If you show me good numbers on the 7 vs A8 and S classe I'll be impressed.

Originally posted by DF7
I believe the above articles speak for themselves.

Furthermore, I am pretty confident in saying that Bangle & Co. aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Can't argue with the numbers folks.

Sorry.

:hihi:

I guess you can't.

http://www.bmwm5.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29000

Originally posted by DF7
I believe the above articles speak for themselves.

Furthermore, I am pretty confident in saying that Bangle & Co. aren't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Can't argue with the numbers folks.

Sorry.

:hihi:

:hihi: A query on Google on "Chris Bangle" the "Stop Chris Bangle Petition" shows up on the first page asresult no 7:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=chris+bangle&lr=

:cheers:

:hihi:

I would like to hear bangles response to this petition.

My issue with the 5 series exterior design change, so far, has been how ordinary it is- it invokes no emotion. I mean when the 5 series went from the E28 to the E34 I was excited and then again when the E34 became the E39 I was excited. But now, the change from the E39 to the E60 is just...bland.

At least with the E65 7 i felt something (anger! :hihi:), but with the new 5 I got nothing.

Oh well, I'm going to sit this one out and wait for the new NEW 5 series. ;)

POW!

ALX

PS. Yeah, I'm on the wait list for the E60 M5, but if the M styling doesn't do for me I going back to an E39.

Just to be complete, remember to refrain from buying anything called a "Bangle Bracelet" for your wife/girlfriend on Mother's Day. ;)

Almost 10 000 soon! Its good that the 5-series does not look that bad and especially the 5-series Touring.

But the 7-series...

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39m5/4778926-1.html

they arent showing much love...

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39m5/4778926-1.html

they arent showing much love...


In the above forum, BMW NA says "We know that your next question will be: “When will the new M5 be on sale in the US?” There is still no confirmed date for the launch of the production E60 M5. Here is a hint, M models are typically introduced two years after the launch of the core model, and the E60 M5 can be expected around this time frame. "

2 years, well that's not the best news - if you figure the regular 5 series came out in the fall of '03 - then this makes for the fall of '05.

Interesting that BMW NA posted on roadfly but not here - unless I missed something..

2 years, well that's not the best news - if you figure the regular 5 series came out in the fall of '03 - then this makes for the fall of '05.


I seriously doubt it will be that late.. not with expected release in Europe this fall. And BMW is loosing too many sales to postpone, especially since it is "95% complete" at the Geneva show.

I seriously doubt it will be that late.. not with expected release in Europe this fall. And BMW is loosing too many sales to postpone, especially since it is "95% complete" at the Geneva show.

I would agree, but the post on roadfly is from a BMW NA rep and they gave the hint at 2 years. It's a semi-official comment I suppose.

I would agree, but the post on roadfly is from a BMW NA rep and they gave the hint at 2 years. It's a semi-official comment I suppose.

Then again, BMW has said nothing officially either. And look at it this way.. say late 2005, deliver early 2005.. everyone's happy. say early 2005 and have problems getting them here by then....

It was just a guestimate to control the madness! How long after the e46 was released before the M3 was released? Less that two years if memory serves..

I have read that in U.K the car will be delivered from October 04 but have also read spring 05. We cant say yet when the car will be launched :(

all the best
adam

[You have my signature, and probably anyone else you ask :)

If you search on chris bangle on Google:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=chris+bangle&btnG=Google+Search

the thread that started the petition:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7847&page=1&pp=35

If you serach on stop chris bangle you will end up with m5board.com no. 3 in the search result:

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&q=stop+chris+bangle&btnG=Search

Googlism on Chris Bangle:

http://www.googlism.com/when_is/c/chris_bangle/

I agree with the comment about BMW not giving a $hite to any of these petitions. BMW's attitude to its new design direction is staunch and they have already stated their position about the disdain some enthusiasts have towards the new direction. The reality is that no illegitimate, online petition is going to do squat for an effective change or rescission in the current design direction. MB, Lexus, etc are all taking the same direction in exterior and interior elements as well.

It is my perception that the majority of people complaining about the new design are people who cannot afford the new M5 or newer model of the BMW they currently own, have not driven the new models (they are incredible when approached from the root driving characteristics), and can’t handle change (feel inadequate driving the “old” model. Fortunately, the E39 was produced in large quantities and I love the generation. If BMW was a publicly traded company and you were a shareholder concerned about the direction you could sell your stock or voice your disdain at a shareholder meeting. BUT – they are a private company (thank god) and have the opportunity and ability to change the direction of their design based on what is right for them. BMW has always done this and it is one of the reasons they are so successful. I think the majority of owners who are complaining are the same type that complained during the E46 / E39 change owners and they were eventually drowned out by a new set of owners who appreciated everything the new models had to offer beyond the old units.
Contrary to speculation and attitude, BMW’s sales are not faltering, they are doing very well and I predict they will continue to do well with the eventual design following by other premium marks in the coming years.

tetherM5,

Though I really like the E60 design, think it makes my E39 look very old, have ordered and specced my new car and find the constant static from those who dislike it a tad irritating, I think your take on it is perhaps a tad harsh.

To claim that the ruckus is largely based on envy seems narrow minded, and the fact that a lot who strongly dislike it are looking at MB and Porsche as an alternative kind of repudiates the can't afford it theory.

I'm now a bit sick of the whole thing to be honest, there are those of us that like the new direction and those of us that do not. As you pointed out, there were many people that had the same issues at the last model transition, though this time it is exacerbated by the fact that the change is far more radical.

The new silhouettes are with us until the next model cycle at least, with at the most some fidgeting with details as in the facelifted 7.

Seems to me it's time for us to move on.

I agree with the comment about BMW not giving a $hite to any of these petitions. BMW's attitude to its new design direction is staunch and they have already stated their position about the disdain some enthusiasts have towards the new direction. The reality is that no illegitimate, online petition is going to do squat for an effective change or rescission in the current design direction. MB, Lexus, etc are all taking the same direction in exterior and interior elements as well.

It is my perception that the majority of people complaining about the new design are people who cannot afford the new M5 or newer model of the BMW they currently own, have not driven the new models (they are incredible when approached from the root driving characteristics), and can’t handle change (feel inadequate driving the “old” model. Fortunately, the E39 was produced in large quantities and I love the generation. If BMW was a publicly traded company and you were a shareholder concerned about the direction you could sell your stock or voice your disdain at a shareholder meeting. BUT – they are a private company (thank god) and have the opportunity and ability to change the direction of their design based on what is right for them. BMW has always done this and it is one of the reasons they are so successful. I think the majority of owners who are complaining are the same type that complained during the E46 / E39 change owners and they were eventually drowned out by a new set of owners who appreciated everything the new models had to offer beyond the old units.
Contrary to speculation and attitude, BMW’s sales are not faltering, they are doing very well and I predict they will continue to do well with the eventual design following by other premium marks in the coming years.

No offense tetherM5 but I believe that you are for the most part completely wrong.
I feel that the majority of people here who own/have owned an E39 M5 can quite easily afford the new one; my hesitation has nothing to do with economics. Like many others, I feel that while the driving dynamics of the car will be excellent, I find it very difficult to purchase a vehicle that I have to make allowances for, i.e. a dis-jointed exterior, that probably will be due for a 'mid-model year' make-over sooner versus later, and an interior that just defies logic in a BMW that is/was supposed to define 'driver orientation'.

As to whether BMW are doing 'well' or not: the 5 and 7 series are performing well under expectations here in the USA, which is BMW's biggest market I'd assume. That's why the 7 has been re-designed so rapidly, and why I believe the 5 will also have a rapid exterior re-design. The poor USA sales have also probably driven the decision not to radically design the new 3 series, which remains BMW's 'bread and butter' model.

If BMW was a publicly traded company and you were a shareholder concerned about the direction you could sell your stock or voice your disdain at a shareholder meeting. BUT – they are a private company (thank god) and have the opportunity and ability to change the direction of their design based on what is right for them. .tetherM5, I seriously think you need a bit of research. BMW is a public, not private company, with shares traded. The exchange on which it is listed are in Berlin, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hannover, Munich and Stuttgart, traded in Euro. I think your comment on "having the opportunity and ability to change the direction of their design based on what is right for them" is based on the fact that they are a public company, run by corporate professionals to make a return. Every model production run and its decisions (impacting us, the owners) are clear examples of that. Here's a chart of their ordinary share price over the last 12 months.

http://iracs.is-teledata.com/bmw/bmw.chart2?l=e&h=&s=BMW.FSE&a=0&b=&start=1104537600&ende=1105916222&c=1

And a chart comparing with general index shows they are doing well.

http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/2_investor_relations/2_2_publikationen/2_2_1_geschaeftsbericht_03/2_2_1_1_geschaeftsjahr_2003/images/bmwaktie.gif

Well I know South Africa is hardly a major market for BMW but hear me out. The E65 is outselling the S-class by 25%, I see alot more E60 5-series than I do E-classes (I'm sure they are out-selling the E-class aswell) and 1-series sales are really booming. Proof that there is a huge demand for Banglised cars.

Let's not forget that the E46 3-series is still in the top 10 car sales every month though, even so close to replacement. While the RSA doesn't have a huge amount of spending power, we nonetheless have a huge market for cars. If you find that doubtful feel free to back up my claims with some research.

I am still at the younger side of the age-barrier and personally love the Bangle design. My father is quite the BMW enthusiast, having owned the E65 745i and now currently driving a 530d and a 645Ci until the M5 and M6 come. I can only afford a 325ti though :crying2:

So it is not just the younger generation who like the Bangle designs, as my old man is pushing 50 and except for the electronic problems on his 745i has had no complaints. He even likes iDrive! :haha:

now at 11380 signatures! someones been busy

Rob

why wont this thread die...2 years ago this thread did nothing to get rid of bangle and its done even less in the recent times. JUST LET IT DIE!

yes guy's, don't say a word, if you don't like what Bangle did to BMW just stay shut...:rolleyes:

Rob

I think it is great that it gotten worldwide attention.

signed.

Chris Bangle works for Mercedes. This is the only explanation for his butt ugly designs.

"...(feel inadequate driving the “old” model...."

Not me, and I drive an old E30 540i T 6. I have a new M5 on order as well, despite the Bangled styling, which I find utterly repulsive, and I don't like having the SMG crammed down my throat either.

BMW doesn't care about the core values of the marque. The CSL was not offered with a manual box and now the M5 is deprived of what made BMW's premier saloon different from the competition. I have owned BMWs for 23 years, raced them, and enjoyed them to their fullest. I must say that I appreciate the engineering involved in the new models, although I hate the nanny gearboxes and other frippery, but as far as style is concerned, I will never warm to Bangle's abominations.

I suppose that BMW has identified a vast, untapped market of absolutely bewildered, nouveau riche, Kia, Hyundai, and Pontiac Aztek owners that they must cater to as far as styling is concerned.

As well as the untapped marjets of mainland China and other developing countries. The 7 is loosing in Europe :3:


I suppose that BMW has identified a vast, untapped market of absolutely bewildered, nouveau riche, Kia, Hyundai, and Pontiac Aztek owners that they must cater to as far as styling is concerned.

[QUOTE=Gustav]As well as the untapped marjets of mainland China and other developing countries. The 7 is loosing in Europe :3:[/QUOTE

That explains the rather strange eyes. And we were blaming it on Dame Edna all along!

I suppose that BMW has identified a vast, untapped market of absolutely bewildered, nouveau riche, Kia, Hyundai, and Pontiac Aztek owners that they must cater to as far as styling is concerned.

Well that certainly describes me.

Speaking of which, I saw a silver 545i this morning in a long line of upscale car traffic. It really stood out and looked good relative to the Benzes, Lexus et al around it. While I have been previously a bit critical of the looks of the new 5 (I've actually liked the 7 far more), its avante garde look (that's fancy talk for us bewildered nouveau riche guys) made the other cars look drab and boring.

Tom

Well that certainly describes me.

Speaking of which, I saw a silver 545i this morning in a long line of upscale car traffic. It really stood out and looked good relative to the Benzes, Lexus et al around it. While I have been previously a bit critical of the looks of the new 5 (I've actually liked the 7 far more), its avante garde look (that's fancy talk for us bewildered nouveau riche guys) made the other cars look drab and boring.

TomSo, the 545i you saw "stood out" from the surrounding Benzes, Lexuses (Lexi?), et al. Well, a water buffalo stands out in a herd of gazelles, but that doesn't make it better looking.
In a recent letter to Automobile Magazine, I compared automotive styling to music. I likened the new Ford Mustang to classic rock and roll, the Jaguar XJ6 to classical music and the "old" BMW designs to adult contemporary. The new BMW designs compare to avant garde, experimental jazz. Some people love it. Some don't get it. Others (like me) understand the idea behind it, but don't care for the end result. Same with the new "Bangle" designs.
As for firing Bangle, yes...let it go. BMW has done the internal equivalent by making him a manager, effectively removing the pen from his hand. The toned-down look of the new 3 series is proof that the message got through to the managing board. Eventually, the "Bangle" will work itself out of the designs, the sun will come out, the songbirds will begin chirping and life will be good again. Until then, there's always the Infiniti M45.....

[QUOTE= Eventually, the "Bangle" will work itself out of the designs, the sun will come out, the songbirds will begin chirping and life will be good again. Until then, there's always the Infiniti M45.....[/QUOTE]
Infiniti M what? You must be joking.... :hihi:
Still, I say Bangle should be fired. We will be driving his design for the next 6 years or until the model change....

Whatever happened to this? Amazing what 500hp and brilliant engineering can do.

I'm still waiting for Gustav to open the Mea Culpa forum. We should get over 10,000 posts pretty quickly, right?

Tom

Haha.. .I still think the old non facelifted 7 series is not good lloking at all. Facelift is better.

I actually slightly prefer the pre-facelift version of the 7, but the difference is not significant either way.

If you bring the Mea Culpa petition with over 10,000 signatures on it, Chris might agree to do an interview with you at the next auto show.

Just a thought.

Tom

:7: It is not that interesting with a review. I saw him at the Frankfurt Salon at the Maserati stand.

I actually slightly prefer the pre-facelift version of the 7, but the difference is not significant either way.

If you bring the Mea Culpa petition with over 10,000 signatures on it, Chris might agree to do an interview with you at the next auto show.

Just a thought.

Tom

It sure is entertaining reading all of the old statements, and then comparing to the sentiment around the board now.
Now, where is the thread with Bangles "big round things" video in it. That one was a hoot.
:cheers: