Healing the crippled US LC and the DE

[bernhtp]

I didn't do the Driving Experiences for my last two M5s (too busy then), but will do it in the Spring. My bet is they have you sign your life away before you get on the track. As long as you're doing this, let's tell BMW USA to have us sign another document enabling them to heal our crippled LCs with a CD to bring home or a certificate for our dealer to do the software update.

Tom

[EBuyuk]

Originally Posted by bernhtp

I didn't do the Driving Experiences for my last two M5s (too busy then), but will do it in the Spring. My bet is they have you sign your life away before you get on the track. As long as you're doing this, let's tell BMW USA to have us sign another document enabling them to heal our crippled LCs with a CD to bring home or a certificate for our dealer to do the software update.

Tom

I am also planning on doing it in the spring once the M6 arrives. Maybe a bunch of us can go there at the same time.

[StealthBlue]

Originally Posted by bernhtp

I didn't do the Driving Experiences for my last two M5s (too busy then), but will do it in the Spring. My bet is they have you sign your life away before you get on the track. As long as you're doing this, let's tell BMW USA to have us sign another document enabling them to heal our crippled LCs with a CD to bring home or a certificate for our dealer to do the software update.

Tom

I hope it works... Not sure if the local dealers (or the performance center folks) would have the software to enable the full launch. I would also assume this would have to go through NA management.

Edit: I do not think the warranty should be affected.

[bernhtp]

There obviously has to be a change of policy by BMW NA. We should figure out a constructive and effective way to combine our efforts to get what we want and still address BMW's concerns that created this policy. I have some ideas, though it would be helpful if someone had personal contacts at the BMW NA exec level to carry in the message.

Tom

[Gop-Dogg]

The 'document' you sign to enable LC will be a warranty forfeiture form.

Anyone have any official word on why LC is available on the M3 SMGII, but not on the M5 SMGIII?

[bernhtp]

Originally Posted by Gop-Dogg

The 'document' you sign to enable LC will be a warranty forfeiture form.

It would be fair and reasonable for BMW to require an acknowledgment of a clarification of the warranty and service policy that it does not extend to wear and tear due to LC use.

Anyone have any official word on why LC is available on the M3 SMGII, but not on the M5 SMGIII?

It's available in both versions and also crippled in both versions relative to the EU version. The crippling is worse with the M5 most likely due to its massive power.

My guess is there is a steeply non-linear relationship between launch RPM and clutch wear due to:
- More speed across the friction plates causes more heat and wear.
- The greater engine speed needs to be gradually applied to the wheels via more clutch slip, which causes friction, heat and wear.

Tom

[StealthBlue]

How are the Euro cars' warranties affected by SMG?

[bernhtp]

Originally Posted by StealthBlue

How are the Euro cars' warranties affected by SMG?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that European warranties are shorter, but more significantly, they do not get free service and replacement of worn parts (e.g., brakes). Warranties deal with defects in quality and workmanship, while the maintenace policy deals with wearable items. Unless the clutch is defective (rarely the case), a worn clutch falls into the maintenance policy. It's here that the generous BMW USA service collides head-on into the American drag-racing culture and a launch control matched to a 500+hp engine. Something has to give in that massive collision, and BMW USA obviously decided that it needed to be full LC.

Tom

[StealthBlue]

So you would propose a launch control window after which the user would be responsible to replace the clutch. After the replacement, let's say after 50 more LC launches one would become responsible again and so forth... But if you do not surpass 50 then the maintenance program holds. Is that the idea you have in mind? Or total elimination of the maintenace program with respect to the clutch plate?

Originally Posted by bernhtp

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that European warranties are shorter, but more significantly, they do not get free service and replacement of worn parts (e.g., brakes). Warranties deal with defects in quality and workmanship, while the maintenace policy deals with wearable items. Unless the clutch is defective (rarely the case), a worn clutch falls into the maintenance policy. It's here that the generous BMW USA service collides head-on into the American drag-racing culture and a launch control matched to a 500+hp engine. Something has to give in that massive collision, and BMW USA obviously decided that it needed to be full LC.

Tom

[bernhtp]

The clutch has always been an ambiguous part of the maintenance program in the first place. It was common for people to quickly burn them up on the E39 M5. BMW sometimes did and sometimes did not replace it under the maintenance program. From what I can tell from reading posts, they virtually always resisted even when they ultimately capitulated. BMW's maintenance program covers normal use, but not abuse. BMW considered hard launches and hard shifts to be abusive despite the performance character of the car. Hence the problem.

I think that clarifying the maintenance to exclude the clutch under maintenance (not warranty), especially in light of significant use of LC, is reasonable. Users of the feature should understand that they are responsible for the components, especially clutch, they prematurely wear out through its use. Note, that my guess is that tires will cost more than clutch in such situations.

Tom

[Jessem]

I think we(in the US) need to remember a couple of things:

1. We pay the least for what we get M5-wise vs. the rest of the world

2. We have the most inclusive maintenance program vs the rest of the world.

3. We get the DE( not a cheap proposition) , unlike most of the world.

4. We have the highest(or nearly) ratio of lawyers per capita.

5. I suspect we had the highest E39 M5 clutch failure rate vs the rest of the world.

So BMW has decided to take some of the fangs out of a function that easily could lead to higher costs for them. We shouldn't be surpised or angry. If we really bought this car to drag race, I think we bought the wrong car.

I'll probably try the LC once, just for S&Gs, but I can't imagine sitting at a red light with my engine screaming waiting for it to turn green!?

[vndkshn]

I agree JesseM. The problem BMW has run into is that American's sue for everything. Changing the warranty to not cover the clutch in cases of abuse leads to all sort of questions as to what is "abuse"? I think it could easily be argued that a car with a 500hp engine should be able to take the "abuse" of hard launches. Otherwise, why did they build the car the way they did and market it they way they have? And what will happen when someone who has never used LC has their clutch fail at 15k miles? Did they abuse it? Or did they sit in stop and go traffic in say San Fran for those 15k miles? Or was the clutch defective?

In short, a bad situation for them.

As for the E39 M5, that was a combination of an undersized clutch system, and a self adjuster that failed.

[Rezf]

I don't know how you guys are being very rational about this. i would be FUMING if I found out they "removed" a component from the US spec M5, even though they were heavily advertising it only months before. You guys should stand united, write a letter on behalf of everyone interested (who owns an M5)-and verify this in the letter with VIN and name of customer-, and demand to have LC