AUDI A8 6.0 the most powerfull sedan of the world

[kaufmann]

so what if it has 420hps?
its all a matter of power/weight ratio.

bmw and its tuners have much more powerful engines then audi.


dont forget Mpower has the 627hp motor for the mclaren f1(:

copy and paste this to the audi msg board
(:
cheers

[RYAN]

Lets not forget the upcoming RS8 that will be powered by a 500hp 4L Bi-Turbo V-8.

COMING SOON!

[MTY]

Audi has made a huge V12 engine that has 420hp. I couldn´t belive it, MORE THAN THE M5 E39. I know the M5 is better in acceleration and top speed but has less hp ( I don´t care). Of course this Audi engine is much better than the 750i V12 and the MB 600 so I would like to see BMW improving it´s V12 engine in the future 7 series in order to beat this 6.0. Someone knows anything about this ?
( I know the Alpina B12 has 430 hp, but a few cars are made unfortunately )

[raymondw]

The audi 12 cylinder engine is not really a V12, it consist of two VR6 engines in V-shape. Actually it is a W12 engine, and that is how it is called. The W12. Audi choose for a W12 since a V12 does not fit in the A8 engine compartment with the quattro drivetrain.

On paper the W12's performance does look good, but I have some hard feelings on reliability with this engine. First of all, the cranckshaft is very short so all the cranckshaft bearings and the piston rod bearings must be smaller than for a normal V12 engine. With that high power output I have some hard feelings about their longevity.

Second, the heat build up in this engine, When the VR6 was introduced in 1991, a lot of engines suffered from an overheated 6th cylinder until 1993 when VAG solved the problem. The main cause was the thermal stress and I know of some people who had to rebuild their engines becuase of this. With a W12 and 420hp, things can only be much worse.

The VR6 is a marvellous piece of engineering, and actually is the best V6 which exist today. It combines the smoothness of the inline 6 cylinder and the small size of a V6 engine. It is no wider than a 4 cylinder engine either. But that has created some big technical problems to solve (mechanical and thermal stress). I can only hpe for Audi that they do not have these kind of problems with their W12 engine.

With best regards,

Raymond

[jsh/AZ]

Great info raymond. To bad there aren't more Alpina 6.0's around.Anyone ever driven one..?

------------------
jsh

[-Kaizu-]

So what?

Audi RS4 MTM is in Germany only 198000DM.

engine:
2,7 twinturbo
490hp
0-100km/h 4,0 secs (same think than 0-62mph, to u US people)
19" wheels
lots of room for golfbags.

[MTY]

The fact that has more hp than the M5 ( I don´t care, the M5 is faster...)

There is always someone that owns a car with more hp than yours.

So what?

[raymondw]

Yes, that is true. There is allways someone faster.

The fact that an MTM RS4 costs close to 200000DM is comparing apples to oranges. It is like comparing an E34 Alpina B10 biturbo with an E34 ///M5. These are also different cars. The RS4 is a great car, and will become a classic one day, but comparing tuned RS4's with stock ///M5's is not right either.

MTM is a very good tuner since Maier is an engine development engineer and used to work for Audi before he started his own company. But let's face it, extracting this kind of hp from such a mechanical small engine as the RS4 has is not easy.

For the S62 engine as used for the E39 ///M5, I know there is lot's of engineering development left. Of the current 400bhp beast, the exhasut manifold is the same as for the 540i. Replace this one with a specialty unit and there comes an extra 50 horses. This is not a ferrytale, Both Racing Dynamics and Nowack has done ths. Second, lowering the inlet air temperature offers an extra 25bhp to 50bhp as Nowack did. So with relative small changes, BMW can extract an extra 50-75hp. I don't know how this affects reliability, but for the tuners this is not a problem.

Comparing this to Audi, reliabilty is no problem of concern for MTM, digitec and others. They know that and their customers are aware of that. They want more horsepower despite the decreased reliability.

Only for this reason you cannot compare tuned cars and stock cars. Granted, a tuned RS4 is faster than an E39 ///M5, but is a tuned RS4 also faster than a stock ///M5 in ten years from now?

Oh, by the way, BMW came with the E34 ///M5 touring back in 1992. This is even before Audi came with the S2 avant and the S4 avant in 1992. With the upcoming E39 ///M5 touring you can also take the golf bags with you.

With best regards,

Raymond

[MTY]

I don´t know if the Nowack N500 has 503hp,let's see an M5 Evo! I´m sure M guys can do it.
Personaly I don´t think the M5 Evo is necessary because the actual M5 is better than the e55 AMG, S6...but I would like to see it.




[This message has been edited by MTY (edited 02 February 2001).]

[Erik]

Concerning tuning of the M5

I dont think its possible to gain 75 Hp in this engine just by changing the exhoust and the Air inlet. That is to oversimplify the challenge.
Until I see a proffesional test of both the Rasing Dynamics and the Nowak cars im not convinced that this is possible.
Reading Gustavs report on this car it did not sound like it had over 100 hp more than the stock engine.

Quote fron the report:
--------------
We sure did leave the original M5 behind us.
But that was in speeds often over 250 km/h then the limiter kicks in on the original, and this was without one.
--------------
It sound to me this another case of overoptimistic tuners promissing more than they can keep.
Just my humble opinion

[Gerjan]

This maybe is a late reply, but whatever. BMW will come with an 5,7l v12 engine in the new 760i! This one will have 390 hp (according to the dutch car magazine autovisie).

I'm now trying to get some more information about this engine and car...

Gerjan

[MTY]

I was told that the new 760i will come with a 450hp V12 engine. I don´t know if this is so...

Would you mind telling us if finding something about that car ?

Regards, MTY.

[raymondw]

Hi Guys,

It will be likely that BMW will come with a modified version of the V12. Let's face it, Of this engine, there exists 4 stronger variants.

1: The 850CSI 5,6ltr V12: 380bhp
2: The Alpina 5,7ltr V12: HP ????
3: The Alpina 6,0ltr V12: 420bhp
4: The 48valve 6,0ltr V12 for the McLaren F1: 627bhp

BMW uses a 4,6ltr engine for the upcomming X5 4.6. This looks allmost identical to the Alpina engine for the B8 and B10 V8. Coincidence????

On the other hand. The basic design of the BMW V12 is allmost 14 years old, but still very good. If they give it 4 valves per cylinder and VANOS, then it will live another 10 years.

The Audi W12 engine is a masterpiece of engineering. But the piston rods are only 13mm thick and the pistons very short (AMS 4/2001). Otherwise, there was not room enough in the engine. The pistons had to be short to prevent the opposite pistons in the W shape from hitting each other. How reliability is concerned in the long run, who knows? But it is a master piece of engineering.

With best regards,

RAymond