V10 rumors - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

Bahnstormer · 6th October 2002, 20:01

Hi everyone, I'm new to the board and am getting my fill of M5 talk until my '03 arrives in 4 weeks!

Reading all the rumors of the new V-10, I am wondering how practical it would be for BMW to develop a model specific engine configuration that does not share even the number of cylinders of other BMW engines. Granted, the current M5 has major mods, but is still based on the 4.4L. If, as some believe, they are going to be too cheap to even offer a standard tranny because of cost/warranty issues vs. SMG, is a ground up new V-10 realistic? It seems the easiest thing to do would be (God I hope they don't!) to stick a blower or turbos on a massaged version of the new V-8. Although the new E55 is impressive in its numbers, the approach is not. The stance MB takes on real engine magic became very evident to me when they went to the 3-valve engine. I hope that the ///M division will continue to work its magic with NA engines, and although my prized new ///M5 will be slow (LOL, its all relative, eh?) compared to the E55, I know I will be entranced every time I row the gears and hear the engine sing.

Happy ///Motoring

Chris

Richard in NC · 6th October 2002, 21:26

Bahnstormer,
Exactly! The M5 has great parts but is more than the sum of its parts. It's the total experience, not just the power. Take the recent EVO (British car mag) comparison between the M5, the RS6 and the Jaguar SJ-R. The RS6 has lots more power, is a bit quicker off the line and mid RPM straights, but the M5 still came out on top because of the total package. I hear the new E class has good handling and good looks (remarkably similar to the E39 look) but it remains to be seen how well the E55 does. Even so, BMW may loose lots of sales if the E60 M5 is still several years away.

MAVERICK · 6th October 2002, 21:27

Welcome aboard, Bahnstormer! I'm glad you are going to be content with the E39. The V-10 is definitely going to be in the next M5. Although, without a manual and a cock-pit styled dash, I don't think it is worthy of the name "M5."

Happy ///Motoring!

Bahnstormer · 7th October 2002, 01:38

Hi,

Thanks for the welcome! I just read in R&T magazine that indeed the new engine will be a V-10. It is too bad that horsepower wars/marketing for the masses are overtaking manufacturers. Perhaps it is becoming harder for them to please smaller (albeit important!) market segments like the driving enthusiasts. Whatever it is... maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.. then again maybe we will be grateful we have our 99-03 ///M's!

Richard, you are so correct about BMW being more than the sum of its parts. My first BMW was a '98 528i 5-spd. The car hooked me, it wasn't fast but is was just so basically good at everything it did. It continued to impressed me through the day it possibly saved my life in a severe broadside accident.

Happy ///Motoring

Chris

MEnthusiast · 7th October 2002, 02:28

Welcome and I agree with the above. btw- we havent talked price. the rumor on the E60 M5 pricing is in the 90k range

bobafett · 7th October 2002, 03:00

90k? Wow...that is quite a price-hike, although I'm sure it's justifyable.

--Dan

MAVERICK · 7th October 2002, 04:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Bahnstormer
Richard, you are so correct about BMW being more than the sum of its parts. My first BMW was a '98 528i 5-spd. The car hooked me, it wasn't fast but is was just so basically good at everything it did. It continued to impressed me through the day it possibly saved my life in a severe broadside accident.

I know what you mean. This past June, I had the opportunity to drive a 2002 530i 5-speed with sports suspension at this year's Susan Komen Ultimate Drive. I drove this 530i about five times throughout the day. It was an absolute hoot to drive and the best car out of the entire BMW line-up that was present that day. Comfortable, spacious, yet tight like a mid-size sports sedan. It's Getrag shifter was a delight. The rack-and-pinion feel, the perfect weighting, along with the meaty M5 steering wheel was a pleasure to grasp. The inline-six was creamy smooth. Sure, it did not have the forward thrust of an M5 or the growl of the ///M V8, but that was the only fault I could find with it. I also sat in the back seat while my father drove. What can I say? Not as luxurious as a big luxo-mobile, but plenty of room for two people on a long-distance trip and comfortable. I realized how happy an E39 5-series owner could be without spending the extra cash for the M5. I could redline the 530i in at least two gears and go pretty far up in third gear without going too far into triple digits. If I had to do that in the M5, I would have been at 130+. Did I mention I had a blast? hehe.

MEnthusiast · 7th October 2002, 04:45

Dan,
theyve got to re-coup that idrive R&D cost you know

Naka · 7th October 2002, 04:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Bahnstormer
Reading all the rumors of the new V-10, I am wondering how practical it would be for BMW to develop a model specific engine configuration that does not share even the number of cylinders of other BMW engines. is a ground up new V-10 realistic?
Chris

Probably that was the same question they had when they decided to make the V8 engines. They have to start somewhere. And the M5 is the right choice. The technology is there (Motorsports department, in charge of the development of the Formula 1 V10 engine). In order to compete with other manufacturers they had to either increase the displacement of the current V8 or use forced induction (like Audi and MB). Or even better, increase the number of cilinders and keep it normally aspirated.
Besides, the M5 will not be the only one using that engine. The upcoming M6 will have it as well. And once proved reliable, expect to see them in other models as well (X5???, "M1"???, Z8???). But that's just guessing. I don't even think the Z8 would live that long.
As a matter of fact BMW is in good company, with all these manufacturers developing NA V10 engines: Porsche (Carrera GT), Audi (S6), Daimler-Chrysler (Dodge Viper), Lamborghini ("Baby Lambo")....although this last one probably is going to derive from the Audi powerplant.
So, to aswer your question: YES, a ground up new V10 is VERY reallistic and probably the best choice. Also, they had to justify in someway (to the board of directors) all the millions spent, in research and development, to create the mighty almost 900hp 19,000rpm-reving 3-liter V10 F1 engine

So, technically speaking, they are not starting from scratch

Bahnstormer · 7th October 2002, 05:45

Naka, Well said! I was just missing the extra info, thanks!

Finality · 7th October 2002, 06:28

Any worthwhile rumors about the 2004 M3?

I talked to a pretty clueless dealer (he did not know what BMW individual was

) about the M3s future ie the march facelift and possibility of an engine upgrade for 2004 of course he said there where no planned changes for the M3 in the future.....

MEnthusiast · 7th October 2002, 19:08

mummm 19,000 rpms

04 M3 rumors- I dont know any that havent been printed- but I remember reading that a face lift is coming and I hope its not to make it look like the new face 3 series.......

Naka · 8th October 2002, 04:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Finality
Any worthwhile rumors about the 2004 M3?
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