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26th March 2003, 10:54
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#1 (permalink)
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Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts)
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550 hp not sufficient!
I am worried about the upcoming M cars from BMW.
Mercedes will 2004 or 2005 launch a SLK amg with 476 hp. They will most certainly deliver a SL 65 AMG with 612 hp. Probably S 65 AMG too.
What will BMW do? The 5.5 liter 10 cylinder engine will not suffice I am afraid? The M5 might do with + 500 hp compared to Mercedes E 55, but M6 cannot stand up against SL 65 AMG and 760 Will be weak compared to S 65 AMG. And what about a Z4 M roadster. What engine will that have to compete with the SLK AMG?
Will BMW pass or will we see engines we donīt know about yet or will (and this makes me afraid) we see BMW engines with compressor or turbo? Will BMW use their 12 cylinder engine (modified) in M6 to get enough cubic inches? Will we see a M7? Questions, questions.
Can anyone ease my worries
Chraun
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26th March 2003, 11:13
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#2 (permalink)
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Donīt forget that the CL65 for example is a car from AMGīs "Kleinserie" which means it will be built in very limited numbers and also very very expensive, around EUR200K.
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26th March 2003, 11:26
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#3 (permalink)
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power is not everything.. 
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26th March 2003, 11:56
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#4 (permalink)
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m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
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As Tfung says.. Power is not everything... also consider what the AMG cars weigh (and I am sure BMW has)...
Remember that even after the test between the M5, Jaguar, AMG and S6 Audi.. the authors all liked the BMW for its all round performance.
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Andre
E 39: CB / Black - most tasteful options (fondly missed)
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take.. but by the moments that take our breath away.
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26th March 2003, 13:58
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#5 (permalink)
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Im with the others- power isnt everything- consider power to weight as well as other factors. BMWs havent always been the absolute fastest 0-60, but theyve been among the most fun to get there. thats what needs to stay the same.
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00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others
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26th March 2003, 14:14
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#6 (permalink)
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Naturally aspirated engines are inherently more responsive and reliable than forced induction (e.g. turbocharged & supercharged) ones.
BMW knows this and will, in my opinion, stick with non-turbo engines.
It is a testament to the engineering prowess of BMW-M that they, unlike Audi & Mercedes, can acheive supercar performance without the need to "cheat & tweak".
I would be delighted with 500 bhp provided the weight of the vehicle doesn't keep creeping up.
Engine power and increased with each incarnation of the M5 (E28-E34-E39) but so has the weight - this is definitely a cause for concern.....
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26th March 2003, 18:36
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#7 (permalink)
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M5 Guru (>2000 posts)
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500 HP, lighter weight, manual trans, rack and pinion steering, impoved suspenion, who could ask for anything more? Any number of cars can be made into a 1/4 mile champ. But the M5 is so much more.
Of course my car will be fine for at least another 2 or 3 years. Much longer if I don't like the new M5 or M6.
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Any other car is a compromise
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26th March 2003, 20:54
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#8 (permalink)
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here, here!! the word is the E60 m5 weight will be very very close to that of the E39 M5... lots of aluminum in there- which is good because we get to hear our English friends say al-u-nin-i-mum even more 
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Jerry
00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others
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27th March 2003, 04:31
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#9 (permalink)
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Re: 550 hp not sufficient!
Quote:
Originally posted by Chraun
I am worried about the upcoming M cars from BMW.
Mercedes will 2004 or 2005 launch a SLK amg with 476 hp. They will most certainly deliver a SL 65 AMG with 612 hp. Probably S 65 AMG too.
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A $200,000 car cannot reasonably be compared with a $70,000 or $80,000. Hell, Black M5 has probably put only a shade over $100,000 into his RMS S/C M5. It's 600 HP and doesn't weight 4,500 lbs.
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27th March 2003, 08:36
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#10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Janne
Donīt forget that the CL65 for example is a car from AMGīs "Kleinserie" which means it will be built in very limited numbers and also very very expensive, around EUR200K.
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But don't you think that similar performance gains can be had very cheaply on the S600?
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27th March 2003, 13:04
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#11 (permalink)
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Psychology
Friends!
Donīt forget the immense impact of psychlogy; a Mercedes with letīs say + 50 or more hp will have a marketing advantage over a BMW even if they have about the same performance numbers. I also think that a BMW cannot beat a Mercedes if it is not close in hp. remeber the small difference between present M5 and the former E55.
It is in my view absolutely essential that BMW keep pace with Mercedes in hp.
A question: Can BMW deliver 600 hp from its 5.5 liter V10? If not can BMW now increase the cubic inches or is it to late?
Further more next SLK AMG will have 476 hp! Will BMW counter? if so with what? Present M5 engine?. Or will BMW in its roadster present something more weak. I have a sad feeling that BMW is lagging behind.
Chraun
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