track mods for beast

[M5ROKIT]

I've been tracking the beast 6 times this season (WGI and LR) and need to upgrade the handling. Going the brake kit route for sure but need advice on tires and suspension upgrades. What have you other guys done for track days?

[lasseoe]

No mods and I'd much rather spend the money on a BMW M3 or Porsche GT3 - I've tracked the M5 quite a few times now and it does handle fairly well, doesn't lack power but it suffers from soft suspension, poor poor brakes and the fact that it needs to be driven extremely hard not to understeer all the time (Unless you powerslide in all corners ).

I'm keeping my M5 as a daily driver and getting either a BMW M3 or GT3 for track use next year (or maybe some other Porsche, undecided still). For the M3 you could get the Bilstein PSS9 suspension, it's VERY good, plus a set of R-compund tyres and you're more or less set.

[M5ROKIT]

Yeah, well I'm not ready to buy a dedicated track car so I'm trying to make the M5 more track worthy. I had this in mind:

-larger fronts (265)
-R compound (Hoosier or Kumho)
-sways
-coilover suspension

I figure that would do the trick without sacrificing too much of the M5 personality that I love off track.

[Chuckc]

I like to drive on the track too. I did the following mods. They were not cheap (nothing is for the M5).The car is more refined and does not loose the original intent of the car as far as a day to day driver.

1. Dinan S3 suspension - takes a lot of the body roll and understeer out. Increases the steering precision to rival my E39 530i.

2. Stoptech front Big Brake kit and ATE superblue fluid - increases braking force, improves modulation. No fade. Increases confidence.

3. AA CAI and UF IATS - improves pull in third gear and up, and not affected by high ambient heat as much. AT my last track event it was over 100f on the track. Very noticable improvement.

4. Powerchip software - (everything you have heard is true)

Keep in mind, the suspension is not the perfect track suspension as it is designed to be very compliant as well. It is how the M5 should feel from the factory - IMO

There are lots of good products out there and strong opinions about them.

[lasseoe]

Have a look at this if you want a really good suspension, Pics DFC installation in Johans car

I don't think Bilstein has a version of the PSS9 suspension for the M5

[M-Fünf]

M5ROKIT,
I have thought about this as well. I have tracked my car a couple of times...it's a real blast to drive on a nice open (fast) track. It doesn't handle as good as some other cars, is in desperate need of better brakes, and need some other stuff as well.

BUT, after thinking it over financially, I have to agree with lasseoe. I also can't justify turning my beast into a track car

For the money it would take me to turn the M5 into a mediocre track car (suspension, brakes, track wheels, tires, pads, brake duct kits, CAI kits, etc.), I can go buy a tricked out E30 M3 that's set up for track use (and a fairly formidable car), and still have money left over to buy gas and tires for track days and racing...(and not worry about thrashing my M5)...

Just my .02

[M5ROKIT]

You mean I can get a dedicated track car for $12-$15 grand? I'm not interested in changing the M5 into a track car. I only wish to make enough mods so that it performs better in it's weak points such as brakes, grip, understeer, body roll. Seems like for $12,000 or so I can improve my enjoyment out there without buying a new car!

[Sydude]

Rokit, I agree with the guys. I think you would be better off not spending a lot of money making the M5 better on the track, and instead putting it towards getting something else. I've had my M3 now for a few months, and it really shows what a difference there is in natural track suitability between them.

I went through all of the different options at one point or another, and think that your best choices would be (@ around $12K or less) either an E30 M3 Track car or an E30/E36 325/328 Race Car (at the same price, much more mods & should be even faster.) You will be faster than your M5 (modified or not) by a long shot in one of these things.

Did you ever get into any Vintage events?

Best regards

Sy

[Lscman]

The E30 would not be my first choice in a bang for the buck track car. The one's that run hard at the track are dedicated track cars with gutted interior and massive mods. They are not cheap.

You should also consider that a dedicated track usually also includes a $5K trailer and $15K tow vehicle. That said, I'm asking $15K for my used street Corvette that has never needed a trailer in 5 years of track. As it sits, it'll smoke any M5 with less than $20K worth of mods on-track & it is nearly stock.

Serious track mods for an M5 will include a suspension with 500 lb/in or higher spring rates. This basically makes the M5 ride like a Ford Focus. You'd better think long and hard about the degradation of it's streetability factor before building your luxo sedan M5 for serious track use. In a compromised "dual purpose" state of tune, $10K dedicated track cars (for example an '88 Mustang with Griggs torque arm, $2K Baer/Brembo brakes and $1500 cylinder heads) will pass the M5 like it's standing still. An M5 is the wrong tool for track, if you're sensitive to the financial aspects or impact on the car's streetability.

When you have $90K in a car and you're struggling to hang with nearly stock $15K LT1 Vettes and modified $10K Camaro's & Mustang's, you probably forgot the sanity check. When street passengers ride in the same M5 luxoride with 500lb/in springs (that rides like a subcompact), they may also question your sanity.

[M5ROKIT]

I appreciate all the advice. HOWEVER, my initial inquiry was as to which mods for under $12K would make the M5 a BETTER track experience WITHOUT degrading its characteristics too much. I understand that the M5 is not the best track car and I do not wish to buy a dedicated car. It doesn't really bother me that modded Mustangs and plastic pigs are going by me, I just want to tweak the M5 so that it's glaring weaknesses on the track are not so detrimental. As a side comment, I'm REALLY now confused as to how so many board members have mega modified their M5's if it does not greatly improve the track characteristics. What are the mods done for anyway if not for real performance change and real life experience of them on the track. Or another venue

[M-Fünf]

Originally posted by M5ROKIT
I had this in mind:

-larger fronts (265)
-R compound (Hoosier or Kumho)
-sways
-coilover suspension

I figure that would do the trick without sacrificing too much of the M5 personality that I love off track.

You're absolutely right, Rokit...We're getting a bit off track. I think that your original list of mod's (above) is adequate to improve the trackability (is that a word?) of the M5. You may want to consider the DFC suspension system (budget willing) as it will allow you to adjust for different situations (from street to track), as well as stronger swaybar brackets. One more thing that I think would really help the trackability...a good seat! I find that even in spirited driving, the leather is a bit slippery for me. Grippy driving gloves are a necessity as well, as the wheel is slippery, too.

Good Luck!

[Chuckc]

Originally posted by M5ROKIT
I appreciate all the advice. HOWEVER, my initial inquiry was as to which mods for under $12K would make the M5 a BETTER track experience WITHOUT degrading its characteristics too much. I understand that the M5 is not the best track car and I do not wish to buy a dedicated car. It doesn't really bother me that modded Mustangs and plastic pigs are going by me, I just want to tweak the M5 so that it's glaring weaknesses on the track are not so detrimental. As a side comment, I'm REALLY now confused as to how so many board members have mega modified their M5's if it does not greatly improve the track characteristics. What are the mods done for anyway if not for real performance change and real life experience of them on the track. Or another venue

Prices for my mods are as follows. These seem to be a good compromise between track and street. There are other options of course. Prices of all mods can be obtained on the web.

1. Dinan S3 suspension - approx 3k including installation. Warranty 50k miles including parts AND labor.

2. Stoptech front BBK and superblue fluid - approximately 2,500 without installation. Some people install themselves and some have this done by a shop.

These two mods help the street and track performance. There are lots of reviews for these on the board and elsewhere. My mission was not to create a perfect track car but basically to clean up the ride, steering precision, cornering and braking so I can enjoy driving the car in all venues. I am running stock tire sizes.

One board member "Gaspasser" drove my car. If you want an unbiased review on the way a car drives with the S3 suspension, you can PM him and I am sure he will answer.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[rebel1]

Hey Rocket,
I'm like you. I love to track my M5. I have been to WGI, limerock, Pocono and a few others.
Here's what I did and it made a world of difference:

1. S3 suspension. WOW! what a great mod. The car is completly nuetral now and turn is is super crisp no ore understeer!

2. 9.5 x 18 SSR comps with 265-35 pilot cups all around. I did this before the S3. It really improved turn in while decreasing understeer.

3. Upgraded the frontpads and went to Motul 600. Also added brake ducts.

4. K&N's


At WGI I saw the need for the 3.45 diff. Evo sport and Dinan both sell tham. As you know that track has a lot of terrain changes and the diif will reduce downshifting.and put more torque to the ground in higher gears.

I will also be doing the lightweight flywheel at the same time as the diff.

I plan also to upgrade the exhaust. I'm not sure if I will go the header route yet, but I see the need for more sound. With the windows down it's hard to here the engine and downshifts are by feel. Sydude can attest to this.

With the tires and brake mods I was able to beat everything on the track during the time trails except the Z06'S

With the aforementioned additional mods I'll give them a run for thier money.
Watch me go!
PS. all of the above cost me about 9 grand. For that 9 grand I was able to vastly improve my times. The flywheel and diff are about 6 grand. Hearders and exhaust are near 5 grand.
Hope this helps;

Bruce