Open Brakes Ducts Work !!!

I had my M5 at Road Atlanta on 3-24-01 for the first time since opening up the brake ducts. Believe me, it makes a substantial difference. When I was at Road Atlanta back in November 2000 the brakes would fade to almost nothing after 4 to 5 laps. This time, I ran the car even harder and experience no brake fad whatsoever. The only thing I have done is open up the brake ducts and put SuperBlue brake fluid in. Stock pads and rotors. Give it a try. it works !

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Nothing like a hands-on, before and after comparison. Thanks, Parkerfe. I think this is the most important upgrade you can do if you want to track your car.

Out of curiosity, how did the outside temperature compare between your before and after runs?

Could you post a step by step how to do it as well as all the correct part numbers? Thank you in advance.///

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D. Guilburt

C4M5-

This topic's nearly been beat to death. For a pretty comprehensive summary (including part numbers) see: http://www.bmwm5.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003032.html

Also, check these out for more of the history/rationale:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1200244&a=8849636 http://www.bmwm5.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002290.html http://www.bmwm5.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002631.html



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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

I gotta agree with Frank-- there were three of us M5ers at Road Atlanta on Saturday, and nobody had issues with fade! My first time on that track (last April, at 1400 miles) I encountered fade (pedal-to-floor! kind) four laps into my third session. Now, by opening up the ducts, I had no such problems. I also upgraded fluid (SuperBlue), front pads (Mintex C-Tech) and ran Goodridge stainless lines. Bottom line: more air to the rotors, and a higher T fluid works wonders!

It's interesting to note that we had three stages of cosmetic appeal: bmurphy had the all-out body-colored splitter, straight out of the M-Technic book (sharp!); I had the M-Technic 'web insert' installed, but no splitter (still workin' on that one, DrKev!), and Parkerfe had the OEM grill drilled out to feed the channels.

BTW, bmurphy had the Stage II Dinan suspension set-up, and he was experiencing considerably less oversteer (per the cornerworkers and instructors on Turn 7) than either Frank or I. Sounds like that could be next....

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

C4M5, The way I done it involves no new parts. I drilled multiple holes in the outside blanked out panels on each side of the grill. One hole per square. I then turned the wheel all the way to the side to get to the front panel of the wheel well. I then drilled several holes directly behind the existing duct in order to get a small keyhold saw in there to cut it out to match the size of the duct. Thats it. You can now through the holes in the grill and see down the existing ducts directly to the brake rotors. It is a straight shot. The whole job took less than one hour.

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Originally posted by Parkerfe:
C4M5, The way I done it involves no new parts. I drilled multiple holes in the outside blanked out panels on each side of the grill. One hole per square. I then turned the wheel all the way to the side to get to the front panel of the wheel well. I then drilled several holes directly behind the existing duct in order to get a small keyhold saw in there to cut it out to match the size of the duct. Thats it. You can now through the holes in the grill and see down the existing ducts directly to the brake rotors. It is a straight shot. The whole job took less than one hour.



Hey Parkerfe...

Any chance that u took a few photos of the whole process??

Sorry, no photos

Instead of doing it the "legit" way, what about just taking drilling holes in the plates, as well as cutting out holes in the panels next to the foglights, and then taking flex tubing and routing it directly to the brake area?

Personally I think it would be easier and you don't even have to pull the bumper off. Opinions?

--Dan

Sorry Guys, my car wasn't ready in time due to some issues with replacing my TriFlo exhaust system. The jerks at the dealership thought it was a stock system even when I told them that it was a TriFlo exhaust they needed to replace. That delayed everything a few days but as a result I have a brand new exhaust on both sides (all nice and shiny again). B&B will not fabricate just one side of the exhaust so my insurance had to pay for a completely new exhaust!

Anyhow, is there going to be a general Atlanta meet? Motorbahn in Roswell is having their raffle for a 2001 M3 at the end of this month, $100/ticket, max of 750 tickets to be sold (only 300 or so sold since the Petit Lemans), and the raffle goes on regardless! We could meet there!

bobafett, The oem brake ducts are not located nor have any relationship to the foglights. The panels that you need to drill out are in the outer most part of the grill itself. The oem brake ducts are directly behind those panels. After drilling them out, you will need to cut a square hole in each of the inner fender panels in the proper location so it matches up where the oem ducts are. You do not need to remove the bumper to do this. The oem brake ducts are already there from the factory. You just have to open up both ends so air can flow through.

Parker - I'm still a little confused. One of the posts showed photo with FOUR new duct pieces - two long ones that would connect up to the existing ducts, and two shorter "flanges" that looked like they might connect the front of these ducts to the grill area.

I know about the following parts:

P.N. #51-11-7-890-013 AIR BRAKE CHANNEL FRONT LEFT
P.N. #51-11-7-890-014 AIR BRAKE CHANNEL FRONT RIGHT
51-11-2-495-280 SPL Insert - $31.95
51-41-8-201-057 SPL Clip - $0.11 each Get a few, you'll need them
51-11-7-893-048 SPL Web Center$36.75

SO - where are these flanges? Do they come with the long ones?

Also, do I need the last 3 bits if I plan to adapt these to the stock grill and drill out the plates?

Thanks -

/Greg

Greg: perhaps you'd like to try my approach (I'm doing it on thursday and testng it on thunderhill on friday):

Buy the left and right air channels, and lop off the extensions, but use that scoop to attach it to the plate. Drill holes in all of the small sections of the plate and connect. Take the open end and using 3" flex tubing, route air DIRECTLY to the brakes (as opposed to pushing it in the general area with this).

I'll have an update with pictures probably on saturday.

--Dan

Greg - I think the comment further down the page mentioned that the shorter 'flange' pieces are the long ducts, just photographed at a different angle.

That's how I interpreted it, in any case.

Dan - would you like to borrow my air shear and cut some holes in the rear fenders for ducts to the rear brakes? I've got some plastic NACA ducts that should work nicely. You'll have to bring your own pop-rivet tool to install them though... http://www.bmwm5.com/ubb/wink.gif

Seriously...I'm doing major surgery on my Mustang to get air to the brakes, but the ducts on the M5 are about as far as I care to take it on that car.

[This message has been edited by JEM (edited 28 March 2001).]

OK, I have another question, How would the openning of the brake ducts in a "homemade" fashion improve the car as a whole? I can see the overall value of improved brake cooling. Using a drill and a keyhole saw anywhere close to surfaces that can rust is looking for trouble. The factory solution is not going to diminish the value/performance of the car or give rise to the question; what other "Mickey Mouse" modifications have you attempted? IMHO///

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D. Guilburt

I think Dan's approach has merit, and he's not talking about radical surgery (unless I misunderstand what he's doing, the only parts he's cutting are (a) the grille insert which is cheap/easily replaceable anyway and (b) the new ducts.

I just don't feel like going down that road on this car, as it won't spend enough time on track to warrant it.

Odd, then, that I'm now considering the mov'it kit, after another post that indicated you only need a 6mm spacer...the issue here is that I just don't find the pedal feel of the M5 brakes to be particularly reassuring.


[This message has been edited by JEM (edited 28 March 2001).]

Originally posted by Parkerfe:
Sorry, no photosParkerfe...sounds like your car may be a bit camera-shy!?... perhaps you didn't take pictures as you worked, but how 'bout a photo of the final result? You know... I'd like to see the front air-dam/grill where you drilled the openings.
Thanks!

I am looking at a copy of the BMW microfich that contains the "lower left & right engine compartment covers WITHOUT brake air channel" (left PN#51-71-2-498-990, right PN#51-71-2-498-989).Does anybody know what the PN# is WITH the brake air channel? I believe these two parts are required (along with the others already mentioned) for an OEM brake duct conversion. My dealer could not find them. They should cost between $55.00 and $75.00 each. Thanx

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D. Guilburt

Russ, not all of us own a Digital camera and there is nothing starnge with that and even if you do own such a camera or a normal camera you might not have the time to post and/or digitize pics.

Parkerfee, glad to hear it worked as expected! http://www.bmwm5.com/ubb/smile.gif Wonder what the real reason for BMW to not putting it there from the beginning?

Cheers,
/Johan

[This message has been edited by johann (edited 27 March 2001).]

Greg-
JEM is correct in that the photos you referenced merely show two angles of the same two parts, the AIR BRAKE CHANNEL (L&R).

All-
If you're considering drilling out the OEM grill 'insert,' then the above two parts are all you need. No matter what you decide, (M-Technic or home-spun), you WILL have to cut rectangular-shaped holes in the wheel well to allow the resident (aluminum) ducts to exit. I used a Dremel Moto-Tool to cut these to match the exit shape.

C4M5-
The only parts you need--with one small exception--are the ones listed below. Believe me, I did this myself. The "web insert" is the actual grill piece with the extreme L and R ends opened up to feed the ducts. The "web center" is the horizontal splitter (see SVTWEB's or MarkM5's photos for reference) that can be painted body color. The exception to the parts listed is this: you will need to purchase about 8-10 plastic pop-rivets that affix the plastic bumper fascia to the aluminum subframe. You WILL destroy these in removing the bumper (by design), and will need to replace them upon installation. I will try to find the official P/N, but I know it's a common fastener, also used on the 540.

Hope this helps!

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

Teuton, the part I listed below is the wheel well liner the Euro version has the air channel with this part there should be no need to cut anything on the car. The web center is optional??? I hope. Thanx

John: exactly right. I don't want that cross-bar, and from what I understand if you get the new web, you have to have it?? Instead, I'm going to "cut" it away, so to speak. I'm not sure how the standard air ducts will work, so I'll keep the flex tubing close by.

If anyone wants to stop by, I'll do doing this @ dynospot on thursday around 1 or so.

Greg: what does SPL stand for?

--Dan

Just for completeness' sake, the 'engine compartment covers with brake channel' part numbers as posted in a different thread by SVTWEB:

R - 51 71 2 694 832
L - 51 71 2 694 899

Presumably these would eliminate the need to cut the wheel well to allow the ducts to exit?

As for the grille mesh: I haven't had it off the car yet, and consequently I can't say how practical this idea is, but if cutting it makes it too 'floppy' one option might be to glue or pop-rivet a piece of 16ga aluminum or 1/8in thick ABS sheet to the back of the area to be cut out to provide a little more stiffness.

The black diamond-mesh roof-gutter covering sold in rolls at Orchard Supply is also known to make a nice cover for openings cut in bumpers, air dams, etc, though it may not be wide enough for this hole.

I'm surprised that this didnt come stock with the car. The old E36 shape m3 came with it. Any thoughts?

I meant M3. sorry.

Guys-
First, the MISSING P/N: here are the plastic pop rivets that affix the bumper fascia to the aluminum subfram ***'y
51-11-8-174-185 RIVET $0.56
You'll need about ten of these to reattach the bumper.

Now, about using the OEM duct and drilling or cutting it out. The one limitation, as I see it, is that there aren't any plastic tabs (as on the M-Technic insert) for the AIR BRAKE CHANNELS to attach. Again, the opposite end of those channels insert pretty deeply into the aluminum ducts, so it may not be absolutely necessary, but it won't be as tight as the M-Technic kit.

As for the Web Center (splitter), there's nothing preventing you from leaving it OFF, and still using the M-Technic grill insert (with tabs). The only downside is that there is a horizontal molding (for the splitter to attach to) running across the grill.

Does it look shi**y? Yes.
Does it look shi**ier than the stock piece with holes drilled in it? Doubtful, but that's a matter of taste.
Does it, upon reflection, look shi**ier than installing that stupid cross-member? I give up! It looks better this way, in my eye, to the other two options.
This is where I ended up.

Finally, is it necessary to purchase the 'engine cover' wheel well parts with the holes pre-cut? Given the cost/benefit, you'd have to be PRETTY anal to go to that length---but I don't want to start any flames here. I think many of us would qualify in some form or another, compared to 99% of the rest of the world, so do as you please!

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

Teuton - thanks. GREAT info. I am going to do this. I agree - probably too anal to buy the new liners.

I'm thinking of securing the front of the ducts with some little "l" brackets - screwed to the duct and the plate in the grill. If I use some nice black caphead bolts it will look fine. I ain't gonna get the m-technic grill.

I drilled and cut mine out with NO new parts added and it worked fine at Road Atlanta last week. If you drill the holes cleanly(no burring) it looks good too. As a matter of fact, the drivers side of the grill already has 6 holes drilled by the factory for alternator cooling. I just drilled the other holes that smae size and it looks OEM.

Is there not a grill insert available that is the same as on the European M5 ?

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D. Guilburt

[This message has been edited by c4m5 (edited 28 March 2001).]

A grill insert is not necessary. Even after drilling out the many squares in the grill, it is still stong enough to support itself. It is not flimsey.

Parkerfe, Thank you for the opinion, I do understand that for you another grill insert is not necessary, as for myself I would like to use the BMW issue non altered part.///

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D. Guilburt

About bmurphy's brake duct setup. I just called Motorbahn to purchase 2 raffle tickets and the guy started telling me about 2 M5s that came in the last month to have some brake cooling duct work done. He said that he had done it on bmurphy's car and that the total cost was $560 or so. That includes matching body paint, super blue brake fluid, and some new lines or whatnot. Is this worth it or should I go the cheaper route ala TeutonAddict or Parkerfe?

PLEEEEASE...you spent $75-80k for the car! Why are you guys pinching pennies now?! Get the factory setup!!!!!!

Not too quick on that hair trigger, DrKev!

While I'm not condoning taking the moto-tool to the factory grill work, the M-Technic parts install is one job a novice do-it-yourselfer can accomplish in about three hours (I'm talking duct conversion, not the brake fluid flush). Given that my Authorized Service Center wanted ~$300 labor to do the same task, I decided to do it myself. You're talking $110 in parts, MAX. Now, the cheap bastard in me opted to paint the "web center" (horizontal splitter) matte black (instead of painting it Carbon Black for $75).

Not all of us can get those reasonable, Western NY labor rates! [$50 exhaust install? $35 paint job? You got it damn good!]

I gotta say Bobby's body-color web center looks sharp; I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

BTW, I've had previous dealers change out brake fluid for product I provided (SuperBlue) for ~$50. Now I do THAT myself.

Edit: GradX, if the $560 covers new stainless lines as part of the deal, then that's probably worth doing. I paid $130 for Goodridge lines from HMS Motorsports, then $150 to have them installed.

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

[This message has been edited by Teutonaddict (edited 29 March 2001).]

Just a point of clarification: the operational ducts came ONLY on MY1999 Euro-spec M5s. As our friends across the pond have pointed out, their ducts on '00 and '01 models are closed off as well.

You need to have your parts person look for the M-Technic kit (categorized under E39 528/540 parts) listed in the SOUTH AFRICAN parts catalog ("RZ," per the BMW computer). They no longer list these parts under M5 accessories. Don't ask me why, I just watched as the parts guy navigated the system through many dead ends.

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

That being the case, presumably the MY1999 Euro-spec M5 had a grille insert with openings? Part number? Can they still be had?

JEM-
Try as I might, I could not locate the "euro-spec" grill insert anywhere. I have to conclude it's no longer available. As SVTWEB has indicated, it may have been a prototype part that wasn't intended for global use.
-Dave

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

I was able to check out Dan's (bobafett) brake duct modification at the karting event. It was a very clean installation and the ducts should move lots of air over those front brakes. Dan, if I understood you right, the only parts that you needed were the two ducts. Greg posted the p/n's earlier in this thread;
P.N. #51-11-7-890-013 AIR BRAKE CHANNEL FRONT LEFT
P.N. #51-11-7-890-014 AIR BRAKE CHANNEL FRONT RIGHT
Are these right? Did the dealer have them in stock?

Greg, are you still up for doing both of our cars at the same time at one of our houses?

John

I just noticed this morning that my wifes'4.4 Sport X5 has the brake ducts open and functional! If you want to see the result of the exercise visit your local dealer and have a peek! JPN/Cdn 01/M5

UOTE]Originally posted by jlvink:
I was able to check out Dan's (bobafett) brake duct modification at the karting event. It was a very clean installation and the ducts should move lots of air over those front brakes. Dan, if I understood you right, the only parts that you needed were the two ducts. Greg posted the p/n's earlier in this thread;
P.N. #51-11-7-890-013 AIR BRAKE CHANNEL FRONT LEFT
P.N. #51-11-7-890-014 AIR BRAKE CHANNEL FRONT RIGHT
Are these right? Did the dealer have them in stock?

Greg, are you still up for doing both of our cars at the same time at one of our houses?

John

[/QUOTE]

For what it's worth, our '98 540i has them too, though I'd never noticed until it was in the shop to replace the front bumper...

GradX, my upgrades for $560 included the steel braided lines, super blue fluid, thus according to Dave aka Teutonaddict may be considered worth it. Obviously, I like it especially with the color matched splitter. One thing I will upgrade before heading back to RA is going to the racing version of the Mintex pads, and maybe, commissions willing (wife not knowing as well) will upgrade the brake system. If I do I will post. Murph

Update: After friendly prodding by JonB, I came off my matte black position and went for the color-matched (Carbon) splitter piece. It looks awesome!

For those of you still considering the upgrade (especially those of you tracking your Beasts), it's well worth the time. Even when installing by removing the front bumper, it's still a two-hour procedure. A small price to pay to eliminate brake-fade!

-Dave

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

Teutonaddict...I am SO proud of you!!! I knew you guys would come around eventually! http://www.bmwm5.com/ubb/biggrin.gif:

DrKev-
I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I can figure stuff out!

I STILL got to be a cheap bastard, though: my service guy said he'd see if his body man would paint it gratis since he sends so much work there. So Jon (the other Atlanta M5er I helped with a duct conversion) and I gave him our splitters and voila! two carbon black inserts for exactly $0.00.

Oh, happy day!!!

-Dave

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'00 Carbon Black/Black All-Leather/Sportive
101421

Ordered my duct parts from Pacific BMW today (they keep them in stock...you guys are creating some demand) so, they should show up this week, and I'll get to install them this weekend.