OMG-spy shots that dont cover up the new 5!!!

OMG i was just lookin at my latest edition of wheels that arrived 2 mins ago and what does it have inside....an exclusive pic of the new 5 series.....the black 1 we see so much of while cold weather testing......but the front is UNCOVERED!!!!!

well ppl.......the front hedlights r directly from the 7 series!!! just a smaller version....the grille however...compliments the lights perfectly.....not so oversized like the 7....cant see too much of the bumper as its all black

it actually looks damm fine....in my own opinion

yet now 4 the bad news....although it is HEAVILY COVERED.....the back lookin like the 7 how the covering juts out soo far like the square end of the 7's.

BUT WOULD U BELIEVE IT.....MUMS GOT THE DAMM CAMERA 2DAY!!!! (got no scanner either :( ) so u ppl will have to wait for like 1hr for her to get home and get this pic posted to u ASAP!!!

sorry to keep u in suspense...but i promise it wont b that long till she brings it home....and i keep my promises and i dont disapoint!!!

paitience ppl

-Greg

Ok, now I gotta see this....

Oh man....any interior shots??

-Chris

arghhhh! why you keeping us in suspense!!...
you shouldn't have told us about the pictures yet until you had the camera...:D hehe
me waiting........................................

SOOO SORRY to keep u guys waiting

but here is the pic!!!

http://www.gjsmachinery.com.au/New5.jpg

told u i wouldnt disapoint!!

ARTICLE READS:

"These photographs prove next years all-new BMW 5-Series draws its styling insiration from the controversial 7 series. Despite the disguise, it's clear that the aggressive and heavy-handed look continues, with the Five using very similar upside down headlights and the same high bustle-back.

Its too early to know if the Seven is a sucess, even on the home market, but its also too late for BMW to change the Five.

* Complex iDrive system also appears on Five. Unlike the Seven, the Five comes with a manual gearbox. So wheres the controler located?

* Fith-generation Five uses lightweight aluminium suspension. The aim is to retain the existing model's lead in ride and handling, reduce weight to improve performance and, especially, economy. Dynamic Drive, borrowed from the Seven, is likely to be an option.

* Engine range to include six- and eight-cylinder petrol and diesel, though Munich insiders claim later M5 supersedan is to be powered by a new V10 that borrows from BMW's F1 technology.

* Longer wheelbase, but near identical length, to liberate more interior and boot space. All-new interior again draws on Seven themes. Expected to set new standards in fit and finish, and a greater choice of colours and materials.

*New Five sedan and wagon also form basis for 6 Series coupe and convertible, due to be launched six months after the Five breaks cover, probably at the Detroit show in January 2004."

-Greg

grrrrrrr That is reminiscent of a rat's ***:nono:

I guess I'm keeping my E39 M5. Make me appreciate more about my beast. :)

Thanks!

A simple smiley says it all:

http://forum.dtmpower.net/images/smilies/puke.gif

I have to say....swap out the wheels and fix the back end and then I'd take it! :D

I can see myself getting used to this.

A close up:

http://www.gjsmachinery.com.au/New5-2.jpg

-Greg

It is simply BUTT UGLY everywhere except from the drivers seat.


Looks like a Pontiac Grand Am from the front. What in the hell are the Germans smoking over there in the design department.

Kinda like a girl with a wonderful personality and who is a great lay but cursed with an ugly face and a real fat ***.

Just my opinion and I will be keeping my current 4 whelled girlfriend thank you very much. (right up until the point they actually offer a V10 of course)


Motormouth

Reserving judgement until official photos are out...or until I can walk up to one in a showroom.

If it's as bad as this, there will be a market for V10 swaps into E39 bodies... ;)

Alps

I dont like it... looks grose! looks like a Volvo! even a volvo looks better than that. YUCK!!! grrrrrrr

http://forum.dtmpower.net/images/smilies/puke.gif is RIGHT!

Well..........I don´t really know what to think. It´s not that bad from the front. But I´m afraid about the rear.......and how bad they will make it look. Please not as bad as the 7-series...please!!

It seems like BMW are going in the same direction as Audi, regarding the exhaust. It´s not hidden like on the normal E39´s.


The right looks like a Volvo S60!! WEIRD!!

A 2002 M5 looks like a better and better deal.:)

Mike-S. :viking:

The front to me looks ok..you gotta think what will the m5 look like..and to me my image from the front it looks ok! BUT the back :eek: oooohhhh boy nevermind eh?

all the best
Adam

I think it's not that bad! To tell you the truth the new 7 here in Europe is selling very well. I think you guy's in the US have enough of looking at Pontiacs and all those Jap car's. That's why you are all comparing the new 7 to the American car's. hmmm I think we all should kick back and relaxs a little for a while untill we see it in the showroom. I'm going to buy it for sure, the new look of the BMW's is going to grow on us in a while.
In two years from this time we wil all be talking and comparing OUR NEW M5's to each other. hiha

just my opinion,

robert.

:cheers:

Good to know I won't be picking up a new 5!

Remember when we all laughed about the 7's trunk and how good of a job they had done disguising the thing??? Well it was the real thing :) I'm willing to bet the same thing goes for the 5 pics we have seen.

Good job Bangle! You blew this one too!

-Chris

grrrrrrr Bangle,

"...I guess you know this means war"
--- Bugs Bunny---

Is it me or does the car look cross-eyed ? Im very content keeping my E39 !!;)

I guess we will all have to move to MB AMG....HAHA....

i hate those headlights!!!

Look at it this way, the demand, and thus the resale value of our E39s just went through the roof.

I finally figured out what bothers me about it. The car reminds me of Groucho Marx with those bushy eyebrows and cigar. Just nothing at all sexy about it.

Would have to put a Pratt Whitney F-18 engine in it to get me to drive.

Gawd, almost as ugly as the Aztec, well, almost.

I'm done now.

Craig.

What's the new model designation going to be- E69? Yuck.:nono:
E39 for me, boys.

What can say: It's so, so, so terrible.... I have to buy old car when I got maney for that...

"...goodnight everybody! This party is over!" :byee55amg

Well, no doubt this car will have buyers here in the US, but to what extent remains to be seen. Maybe there will be 3rd party headlight options, not to mention a 3rd party trunk lid :eek: , to easy the pain of this "transitionary" period... hmmm

For me, if these pictures are accurate, this means I will not get a new 5 series anything, but I don't think I'll "leave" BMW- at least not yet . The new 6 seems to be promising.

As some of you have said, the E39 just keeps looking better and better!

ALX


PS. Hey Black M5! What's the number of the place doing your supercharger? ;) ;) ;)

hiha
Asstek Eyebrows and a bungled, Bangle butt! I am so glad I have a decent looking M5! When BMW takes styling clues from an Asstek, I have doubts about BMW under Chris Bangle. Fire the guy, and give us cars that are stylish, unique, and yet have the BMW DNA in them! BMW, you are going down the wrong track!
:cheers:

Trust me, they will overcome your negative reactions. This group will look deeper into the technology and be impressed. I predict there will be a long waiting line and over MSRP for the M5 will bne commonplace, especially for the V10.

Remember this prediction. ;)

V10 with 550bhp and some fat rubber and I'll say it's beautiful ...

It's butt-ugly. Maybe after a couple of brewskis it will appear more attractive. I know that worked with me during my college years (on the chicks who came to bars).

cherrsagai

Kidding aside, it looks similar to the 7, no doubt. I thought the 7 was nasty looking (from photos). Until, I saw it on the street. Photos don't do it justice.

Originally posted by Johnny D
Trust me, they will overcome your negative reactions. This group will look deeper into the technology and be impressed. I predict there will be a long waiting line and over MSRP for the M5 will bne commonplace, especially for the V10.

Remember this prediction. ;)

I agree, people will not only get over the new styling of the car, but will learn to like it, and there is no doubt that there will be great anticipation for it, especially the v10. When the current 5 series re-design first appeared people had the same negative comments about it....Look now we are all in love. The same goes for the 7 series that was just replaced, not to mention the 996, people could not believe that porsche changed what was viewed to be perfection. Now, people find the 996 to be perfection. There is no doubt that the lateset and greatest technology will far supersede what might be viewed as a re-design mistake, and as I said that redisgn mistake will be eventually called a redisgn masterpiece.....

But that's just my opinion:cheers:

I'm going to order one anyway.......... BangleButt and all !
Probably order an M6 too.

oops

Hey.. I like it. To pharaphrase someone: " You can judge the quality of an idea by the volume of resistance it creates"

Yeah me too M6 V10 please :rolleyes:

I hope that is not what the rear end will look like.

-Ben FR

Originally posted by AndyP
V10 with 550bhp and some fat rubber and I'll say it's beautiful ...

No way. Even if it had 700 ponies, that thing is but. What a shame........just makes me happier knowing I grabbed one of the last E39s. I think I bought my first and last BMW from the looks of this. BAD BOY BANGLE!!:crying:

front end does not look that bad, but first impression is pontiac grand prix with 7 series headlights. let's not talk about the rear end for now. I am sure the official finished product will come out to impress us. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by AndyP
V10 with 550bhp and some fat rubber and I'll say it's beautiful ...

Give me that,and anything is beautiful. Even an Aztec.

:haha2: OKAY NUMBER ONE, I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY ALL OF YOU THINK THAT PIC IS SHOWING HOW THE NEW 5 WILL ACTUALLY LOOK. WHAT YOU HAVE TO REALIZE IS THAT ITS SPY PHOTO, SPY PHOTOS ONLY SHOW SO MUCH, BEACAUSE THOSE ARE PICS OF THE NEW 5 BEING TESTED- MEANING BMW IS NOT GOING TO SHOW EVERYTHING. I DONT THINK BMW WOULD GIVE THE NEW 5 THE SAME HEADLAMPS AT THE NEW 7.... COME ON FOLKS, I THOUGHT YOU WOLUD KNOW THAT. AND WE CAN HARDLY EVEN TELL WHAT THE BACK IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. SO WE ALL ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. BUT I THINK ITS SAFE TO SAY THAT THE NEW 5 WILL NO DOUBT BE A STUNNER.

YOU GUYS SHOULD REALLY CHECK OUT THE LATEST ISSUE OF "CAR" MAGAZINE- A MAGAZINE FROM THE UK, SOLD OVER HERE. IN THE MAY ISSUE THEY HAVE AN EXSCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH CHRIS BANGLE, HE TELLS EVERYTHING, IT' S A PRETTY GOOD ARTICLE!!!!!!!!! AND ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE ARTICLE WITH CHRIS BANGLE IS AN ARTICLE THAT TELLS ALL ABOUT THE NEW 5.

P.S. - AND DONT BLAME CHRIS BANGLE FOR THE STYLING OF THE NEW 7, IF YOU WANT TO BLAME SOME ONE, BLAME ADRIAN VAN HOOYDONK, HE ACTUALLY DESIGNED THE CAR. I PERSONALLY THINK THE NEW 7 IS A BEAUTIFUL CAR, THATS WHY I OWN ONE.

Welcome to the board 745lm.......In your (745's) defense, I have to say I was not to thrilled with the 745, but I saw one the other day with some really nice aftermarket rims, looked like 21", and the car looked amazing.....I strongly believe that the majority of stock rims on german cars do no justice for the car... Example, the old 750i, 120k and the ugliest rims on the planet....same on the 740.. Or the rims on the E class benz.....not mention the s class benz....I could go on and on .......Obviously it's my opinion that rims can make or break the car.......

WELL IM THINKING ABOUT PUTTING SOME 22'SCHNITZERS ON MY NEW 7, BUT THAT DELETES THE FACTORY WARANTY, AND THATS NOT GOOD, SO IM PROBABLY JUST GOING TO CHROME THEM ( CURRENTLEY I HAVE THE OPT. STAR RIMS )

Originally posted by 745LM
WELL IM THINKING ABOUT PUTTING SOME 22'SCHNITZERS ON MY NEW 7, BUT THAT DELETES THE FACTORY WARANTY, AND THATS NOT GOOD, SO IM PROBABLY JUST GOING TO CHROME THEM ( CURRENTLEY I HAVE THE OPT. STAR RIMS )


I would strongly suggest theseClick Me!!! (http://www.hrewheels.com/Car/540Series/index.htm)

I think either the 547 or the 549 in 20" would look great

I have the 540's coming in 19" for the Z8

Originally posted by 2001's X5/Z8


I agree, people will not only get over the new styling of the car, but will learn to like it, and there is no doubt that there will be great anticipation for it, especially the v10. When the current 5 series re-design first appeared people had the same negative comments about it....Look now we are all in love. The same goes for the 7 series that was just replaced, not to mention the 996, people could not believe that porsche changed what was viewed to be perfection. Now, people find the 996 to be perfection. There is no doubt that the lateset and greatest technology will far supersede what might be viewed as a re-design mistake, and as I said that redisgn mistake will be eventually called a redisgn masterpiece.....

But that's just my opinion:cheers:


I agree with you and the other "people will come around"/ positive reactions. I actually like the front end better than the new 7- and I like the new 7. I think this styling will really grow on people.

One thing we do when we see these new Bimmers is we look at them compared to current Bimmers. But what about compared to other cars on the road? They are all getting bulkier looking and I think comparatively, the Bimmers will retain a better look.

finally- I thought I remember some doubters on that V10 prediction I had a long time ago................. :D

consider this feature set: V10 with ~500bhp, SMG 3, anti-dive rollbar technology, ?AWD?

I believe all this should happen with the exception of AWD which I think is still a wildcard. Finally- imagine all this sweat inducing hardware coupled with the ventilation seats to cool your backside........... mmmmmm

Originally posted by MEnthusiast

Finally- imagine all this sweat inducing hardware coupled with the ventilation seats to cool your backside........... mmmmmm

I hope some of the BMW technology will be able to cool the backside of the design presented here. A racingstripe up the center of teh backside would make it look like an overweight frau in a g-string!:eek:

LOL hiha

If you don't care for the rear booty, don't let that deter you from buying one. I'm sure there are aftermarket companies working on a new trunk lid as we speak. It would be an easy design mod!;)

This design has potential, but it still has too many features that I dont like. Placing the turn signals above the headlights is one of BMWs worst design moves ever IMO. It just doesn't look right. In addition, the back end looks way too much like the new line of Volvo's, which I also dont care for.

While I think it looks better than the seven series, I still do not like this design. BMW could do a lot better.

Andrew

I think this is a time in automotive design history where we will all look back and laugh at the stupid designs that have come out -- Aztec, Toyota Prius, Cadillacs, etc. It's just ridiculous.

-Chris

wooowww.....so many replys ;) new it would get every1 talking hahah

well how about this 4 you....a COMPUTER GENERATED pic of what the Five's arse COULD look like:

http://erikli-hamburg.bei.t-online.de/5-2.jpg


i think it looks pretty nice comparing it to the new Seven.

Enjoy

-Greg

I don't think BMW is moving in the right direction design-wise with the new cars. The new Z3 looks good, but the new 7 and 5 series are definitely not my taste. I hate to say this but I would rather buy the new SL55 than the new 5 series. Of course they are two different cars for different target groups, but anyway...

I have also had my doubts that BMW will be able to make the new M5 V10 produce enough power AND torque to be a serious contender for the SL55. Sport Auto in Germany just had a supertest of the new SL55 and on the Nuerburgring they manage a lap time of 8 minutes and 12 seconds and reportedly would have easily been able to do it in less than 8 minutes if the car wasn't top speed restricted and had a limited slip differential...
If the V10 in the new M5 gets 500 or more PS then it will be a high revving beast with poor torque at low revs and probably not be able to go anywhere near the 700Nm of the SL55.

Thank you for motivating me to get off my ***** and head to the Audi dealerhsip and put a deposit on the RS6 and to the MB dealership for the E55. My BMW days may very well be over.

Looks like a Pontiac Grand Am from the front. What in the hell are the Germans smoking over there in the design department.

It's not what the Germans are smoking, it's what bangle is smoking. BTW Bangle isn't German, he's American, hence the very Americanized look. In BMW's quest lead by Bangle to be different, and not look like the rest, we'll their doing it now, just a worse job at it. The trunk line is from Volvo, for one thing. Also Bangle said, that they were moving a way from cookie cutter design (3 series, is smaller 5, and so on), however it seems like their still doing that as well.

I think the first mistake was hiring an American designer (I'm American too, FYI). Also that the American in question wants to move away from a precision machine-age look onto a, and I quote, "hand of man" look, WTF!?! BMW's final mistake in hiring their current head of design, was that he's a spy on MB's payroll, to bring BMW down from the inside.

Come on everyone! Those are spy photos. I doubt we're seeing anything close to the final version.

But let me rebut everything I've read.

First, I read the Bangle article while I was in the UK last week. I like what he's doing. The Board of Directors of BMW likes what he's doing. And apparently, a lot of buyers of the 7, 3, Z8, and numerous other cars like what he's doing. (And don't give me the BS story that Bangle didn't design the Z8. He lead the group that did--you can't take away credit for the good things, and give credit for what you don't like).

Second, designs change. The E39 is going to look like an ugly box 10 years from now. There are few long lasting designs that last for years. An Audemar Piguet or Patek Phillipe watch lasts forever. Maybe an M6. A Waring Blender. But the number of product designs that lasts for more than 5 or 6 years is incredible. So the new 7 is a radical change. It doesn't seem to have much effect on sales. And since the internet seems to gather negative opinions faster than positive, you'd think everyone hated the design, when in fact, the positives far outweigh the negatives. I love the design of the 7, and Bangle has clearly stated that its design will carry over to the 5.

Third, do you really think that BMW gives one thought to losing an individual customer? Your whining that, "that's it, it's the last BMW I'll buy," matters very much? I don't think so. They need to look at the broad base of customers. They may lose one or two. But what if they gain 50 or 100. I'd live with that if I were running BMW.

Fourth, if the new M5 has a V10 engine with 500HP and 500 torque, the line-up to buy the car will stretch from here to the moon. And if it has distinctive looks, so much the better. Go buy an Audi. They all look alike. Round VW's. Go buy a Merc. They've all got that slanting hoodline. I can't tell the difference between a CL and CLK.

Fifth, those of you who criticize the design probably couldn't design your way into a paper bag. Do you know what makes good design? Do you know what attracts people to a car? They may have missed your intelligent missives in their market research, but I pretty much doubt it. They use some pretty sophisticated research to get into the mind of a car buyer. They know what appeals to people. And guess what? I'll bet you'll buy the new M5 even if the thing had fins, painted in olive green, and had more chrome than a Cadillac driven in Boca Raton by a 75 y.o. retiree. This isn't an Aztek. Not even close. That design was approved by the GM BOD without sufficient market research. And guess what? It's starting to sell very well. So does the Subaru Imprenza, which I think is basically the ugliest car in the world.

Lastly, save your criticism for what really makes a BMW a BMW. Threaten to go to Audi and put up with their wimpy power specs, wishy-washy suspension, and poor steering feedback. And the RS6 is not available in the US yet, and may never be, because of CAFE, crash standards, and EPA issues with pollution. Threaten to go to Mercedes and drive their old man's car with soft suspension, little driver feedback, and no manual transmission. What makes a BMW a great car is its driveability. There are no better cars built.

So when the new 5 comes out, my bet will be everyone of you posting on here will be in line pathetically begging their dealer to be put on the list for the new car.

Bangle rocks. His designs rock. The 7 rocks.

All, of course, IMHO.

The 7 trunk is absolutely no design whatever, whomever it was that designed it. The front eyebrows are not cool. Nice yellow thingys over the headlights, just what people like. If the 7 is the style direction for BMW, I didn't consider it when I bought my M5, and I could have saved money getting one. Have you fooled with the demonstration i-drive? If a technological improvement is intuitive and easy, good. You should never have to ask, "how can I make it do what I want?" Menued systems controlled by a single joystick is not an advancment. Why wouldn' it be cleaner, less distracting, and easier to directly control functions on the car rather than fumble through menus. BMWs should be driver's cars, not car that distract from that experience. I feel the exterior will distract me into laughing my *** off as I drive by, pointing all the way...I might even wreck! Even if this isn't the final design, Bangle will propogate the eybrows and the butt in al of his designs, otherwise all you have is a Lexus GS300 shell.

I have the new M5 on order and I agree with your overall take on the new design. Have to admit I'd prefer a little more traditional look but I am #2 on the list here in Dallas no matter what.

Like your stable of cars. I also have a M5 and Z8 but the rest of mine are US muscle cars.

You are a savvy guy, post more often.

Keith

Originally posted by alpywhite
Reserving judgement until official photos are out...or until I can walk up to one in a showroom.

If it's as bad as this, there will be a market for V10 swaps into E39 bodies... ;)

Alps

My sentiments exactly.

Orangemarlin, I hope you are right, because if you aren't, BMW is in deep trouble financially.

-Chris

P.S. You still won't change my attitude about the 7 :) It's UGLY to me!

It does not look very refined for a BMW, the 7 does in person and up close.

I still don't think this is it. The picture looks like its been touched up. If you get Roundel check the Feb issue. It has a
pic of the new five more refined than this.
Rear view only though.

I'll wait to reserve judgement.

My predictions/ thoughts

1. Chris Bangle isnt the devil, I think hes made some not so advisable public remarks. The credit for the Z8 rests with Henrik Frisker. CB can get the credit/ blame if you chose, but Frisker designed it. I wish BMW kept him and his ideas, but it didnt happen. I find Adrian VH's ideas somewhat bizarre, but they do grow on me and BMW has made a good decision to not let the industry just go and copy them.

2. The new 7 is actually quite smart- while we all squirm with iDrive, the whole industry knows this is the future and they are.... scared.

3. I dont think the E39 design will look truly outdated but

4. The E60 will surprise you for the good

5. The SL55 couldnt go faster probably because the reports I get on it is the steering isnt as good as it should be- in general, the steering in the 500 is better because of the extra weight in the 55 and MBs rush to get it to market. Also DCX is more concerned in how to fit these parts into the next PT Crusier (which is truly one of the most horrid designs ever. Unless you are ZZ Top)

6. Be glad youre a fan of a company that has a passion for building drivers cars that not only perform well with statistics but also are leaders in SAFETY and ergonomics.

7. you are free to join the dark side (MB/Lexus/VWAudiPorsche) anytime you want, but once you go to the darkside, forever will it dominate your destiny. if you dont believe me on this, just ask Yoda :)

8. Ill take the M6 cab with SMG3 and the V10 over the SL55 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

9. the SL500 I sat in 10 days ago had problems.......... not kewl MB.........a friend bought a S500, the car was nothing but problems, wouldnt even start. MBUSA gave them nothing but trouble. Finally got them to give a new car, after 6 months of complaints and back and forth. He plans to trade the car for a second year 7er because: the new 7 is awesome and I wish I saw this before the S class.

10. BMW has balls. The others: focus groups. choose your side.

11. I pick BMW until they lose it in the "seat of the pants" part.

finally one more prediction from the guy who said a while ago the next M5/6 would have a V10 while the rest doubted: the super ugly porsche silly utility vehicle will be a resounding......... flop within 5 years. YHIHF.

6. Be glad youre a fan of a company that has a passion for building drivers cars that not only perform well with statistics but also are leaders in SAFETY and ergonomics.
I used to agree with this statement, however the i-drive system baffles and annoys me, I miss the look of all of those buttons, and instead of using that space for some cool new gadgets, they simply put three empty draws. This is not good.:sad3:

hiha hiha hiha
This is a total joke. I haven't decided if I should laugh or puke. This mag deserves to be sued relentlessly, just like the National Enquirer. The new millennium equivalent of 1880s snake oil. My son could do a better job of cropping a picture. Sheesh.

MEnthusiast

5. The SL55 couldnt go faster probably because the reports I get on it is the steering isnt as good as it should be- in general, the steering in the 500 is better because of the extra weight in the 55 and MBs rush to get it to market.


I think you should compare "apples to apples", the SL55 to the Z8 and the M5 to the E55, for a fairer statement of performance.

Both BMW and Mercedes-Benz are wonderful cars. That's why I own both !!

Bear

They have knobs for the a/c controls, instead of soft touch buttons, with a digital display for the temp. That's backwards not forward. I agree with Rave, three empty draws? I know I could use the top draw for my socks. :rolleyes: I'm really sick of the whole lead a new path, or be the first crap, look at all the new Cadillac ads. I'm all up for new things, but why does it seem like in order for them to be different, they have to make crappy looking cars? It's pointless, "We're not like the rest, our cars look like crap!". I love BMWs, just like most everyone here, I'm sure everything on the inside of the BMWs are continually getting better, but I'm a total package kind of guy. Give me one car that's good in every category, instead of a really fast fugly car, or a slow luxo barge.

Originally posted by Rave M5

I used to agree with this statement, however the i-drive system baffles and annoys me, I miss the look of all of those buttons, and instead of using that space for some cool new gadgets, they simply put three empty draws. This is not good.:sad3:

I had the same reaction before I found out that the idrive is really for things that arent used very much. and that you can do a lot with voice.

what buttons are you talking about? hvac? every BMW Ive had with the exception of the Z8 has had a truly annoying HVAC system. Auto doesnt really work and the system requires me to set a temprature that then fights between keeping me too hot or too cold and I spend my time adjusting the manual hot/cold dial between the vents.

with the 7, you have a simple hot/cold dial and speed dial. the way it should be imho.

you want move volume, theres a dial.

you could make the argument that the new interior is MORE driver oriented because there are less things for the driver to deal with apart from driving.

Originally posted by M5-BEAR
MEnthusiast

5. The SL55 couldnt go faster probably because the reports I get on it is the steering isnt as good as it should be- in general, the steering in the 500 is better because of the extra weight in the 55 and MBs rush to get it to market.


I think you should compare "apples to apples", the SL55 to the Z8 and the M5 to the E55, for a fairer statement of performance.

Both BMW and Mercedes-Benz are wonderful cars. That's why I own both !!

Bear

I think its fair to compare the SL500 to the 55 in terms of what do you get. From the people Ive spoken with and reports Ive read, the SL55 offers more power, but at the price of not as much feel as youd like.

You can compare the others, sure. But for me there is no comparison. I have friends with the AMGs and they just dont do it for me. I dont like their approach to technology: just bolt on a hairdryer. For the money: no thanks.


of course I was just kidding with the dark side statement................. or was I? :p

Originally posted by MEnthusiast


I think its fair to compare the SL500 to the 55 in terms of what do you get. From the people Ive spoken with and reports Ive read, the SL55 offers more power, but at the price of not as much feel as youd like.

You can compare the others, sure. But for me there is no comparison. I have friends with the AMGs and they just dont do it for me. I dont like their approach to technology: just bolt on a hairdryer. For the money: no thanks.


of course I was just kidding with the dark side statement................. or was I? :p

Hi ME,
I think you misunderstood.
I was referring to the SL55 and Z8 ......NOT the SL55 to the SL500. Z8 vs Sl55 AMG and M5 to E55

PS Don't knock the dark side if you haven't been there.
{just kidding}

Bear

Me,
I guess your right; I'm just having a tuff time adjusting to the baron look of the interior. I still wish they would put something in the middle and not just three draws.

Bear,

I think maybe (just maybe?!) I went nuts with some of those posts.

I have this to say: I really do like the MB stuff, but Im just not their target market. Since they changed directions in the early 90s they just lost me. Of course they arent the dark side, and fact of the matter is there are only a few car companies making cars worth owning long term right now and those are the ones being talked about here (include exotic Italian and Porsche and you have it all)

Rave,
The new styling shocked me too. I now think its OK. I will have the choice of a new 745Li sport or 745i sport or M5 in around a year. My guess is it will be the M5- but not because I hate the new styling. In general, I dislike every new car's styling (except- gasp- the new E class from MB!). Lexus looks bulky and heavy handed, BMW looks bulky and heavy handed, Porsche is making a butt ugly SUV that has no point to it. So I kind of deal with it as: the whole industry is going through a period of styling that doesnt really appeal to me so much. the styling of the new 7 has grown on me, and when I look at it now I dont see the problems I saw originally. Now I see some aggressiveness and sportiness. So thats good. Then I had the same problems as you with the interior. The bottom line for me will be the test drive, if the car drives as I expect it to: like a big M5, the all will be forgiven. if it doesnt, and it drives floaty or unresponsively, then I will know BMW has lost its soul and its time to move on. Every review has said the same thing: (paraphrasing) maybe you dont like the look, but the car can drive. Friends who have spend some good time with the car tell me this.

finally, if you want to see something that makes the new 7 look beautiful, just hold up a picture of the new Caddy CTS! With the exception of the convertible model, the new Caddy design theme is truly awful. Perhaps they are actually the dark side? nahhhhhhhhhhh, you can see them coming a mile away and "hard to see, the dark side is"...........

Me,
I can learn to live with most everything about the new 7, except the trunk, that I will never like. I can say with all honesty and much time to really think about it that I hate the rear of the new 7.

ME, You are too much !! I love it........

Your friend.

Darth Evader

Bear

I have read all your posts and I have to tell you, I have seen the new 7 at least 20 times and have driven it as well. It is butt ugly, it will not grow on me and it is a shame that BMW is allowing one man's crussade to dominate its new cars. If the new 7 is so great, why is Bangle continually grilled on its design or lack there of. The front is ugly eyebrows over lights ala pontiac, the back does not flow with the car at all and the worst part I feel is that the car is compressed. In other words the front, roof line and rear form a doom ala vw bug in the hopes of obtaining more interior room. I saw a new 7 with tinted windows and the optional 19 inch rims next to an s500 sport and was mortified. Maybe you people are getting used to the new 7's look as it sits next to an e36, but when it sits next to its competitors it really sho2ws it in its new light. Fire Bangle immediately and don't ruin any more designs. Change for the sake of change, what a joke:grrrrr: :grrrrr: :grrrrr:

I don't understand what all of you people are talking about.. There's ONE picture of the car, and the rest are either computer generated or covered up pictures... how do you guys know what the rear would look like??? It's all an artist's impression based on the 7 series.. for all we know, it might look nothing like the new 7 from the rear.. and the one picture of the car's front actually look quite good... providing that the car is black and goes well with the orange turn signals....

lighten up guys... it's just spy pictures... wait until you see the real thing.... in pictures or in person...

by the way, this is one of the last spy pics of the new E class before it was revealed to the public... the front end and the lights look nothing like the actual car... so whatever the spy pics look like of the 5 series, you can bet that it will look different when the public sees the actual car

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/w211/eclasa1.jpg

Originally posted by Rezf
My BMW days may very well be over.

Rezf!

Say it isn't so brother! :eek: How about sticking it out with your '02 M5 and possibly adding a supercharger??? ;)

ALX

Originally posted by tfung
by the way, this is one of the last spy pics of the new E class before it was revealed to the public... the front end and the lights look nothing like the actual car... so whatever the spy pics look like of the 5 series, you can bet that it will look different when the public sees the actual car

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/w211/eclasa1.jpg

Picture didn't show up...

Originally posted by atomic80


Picture didn't show up...

hmm.. shows up for me.... :confused:

try the direct link

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9323/w211/eclasa1.jpg

I agreew ith you..bmw could also be leading people astray..to think that it may look a lot like the new 7..

all the best
Adam

I think these pics are fairly accurate. Remember the later spy pics of the 7- they were nearly perfect.

as to this being one man's crusade. Nothing could be further from the truth. BMW is a corporation with a board of directors. If the BOD doesnt approve, it doesnt happen. Ultimate blame goes to them, which is why sometimes a chairman steps down, etc. Remember "the English patient" (landrover)?

BMW as a company made a decision (and I am sure it was hotly debated) to move into the future. Perhaps they have it wrong and it wont work. No one has a crystal ball. I actually think they are making a shrewd move- there are too many copy cats to BMWs stragegy. Check the recent Jag x type in terms of marketing and even looks. And BMW is relatively small in corporate size to Ford or GM or Toyota or DCX.

As to who is grilling Bangle, well, who is grilling him? The same people that vote cars like the Lincoln LS car of the year? People who like suvs? I couldnt care less about their opinions. They vote a "me too" style a coty? (btw MT is a magazine that is totally "for sale") Automobile mag? They voted the lexus ls430 the best car out there? pleazzeee- its a nice car, but the best? not even close. Even lexus is having some quality problems now that people expect them to produce quality. my friends SC430 has had a few glitches that has surprised him (hardtop got stuck mid way!).

The one thing that is sure is people will vote with their pocketbooks.

To get a true picture of that with the new 7, we have to wait for year 2. if its selling well in year 2, you can expect the "NSD" (new style direction) to continue. If not, there might be some changes, and if its a total sales flop heads will roll in Munich.............. My own sense is the exterior design has a better chance of a follow through to the whole line, while the idrive and interior is what the BOD is really seeing if it will fly. In this regard, testing it on the 7 makes sense since as you move down the model ladder, the more important the cars become for them. Thats why idrive will be an option on the new 5 and probably also on the E46 successor.

Everyone here is talking about the wrongfull road taken up by BMW. I don't think it's fair to judge this road BMW just turned into, every car company has their point of view to the way that market should be won. I really think the problem is in the US, like i said earlier there is NO problem with sales here in Europe. I personaly looked at the new 7 and must say that i like it. The new line of BMW will turn heads, lets first make a possibility for BMW to show us what they can do, how do you know the new 5 will not be a suprise! hmmm . The Europeans are looking for this kind of car's, some of you guy's in the US don't like but i think that's because your all comparing it to other car, WHY? just let time show how this will end up.

just my opinion,

robert.

:cheers:

Originally posted by IloveM5s
grrrrrrr That is reminiscent of a rat's ***:nono:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

UGH....front grill looks like a Pontiac Grand Prix.....glad I have an E39.......

Aside from the Oscar the Grouch headlights, it's not too bad.

500HP covers a multitude of sins anyway.

Where did Orangemarlin come from?

I believe these pictures are accurate. We went through this for the 7, and it was the real deal. I'm not worried though, I'll just wait and see. In terms of looks, there is nothing to get excited about except the M6.


I believe ME is right. It is the real deal.

Look dudes, I won't buy a car if its looks have to "grow" on me. There is no way around it, I have seen the 7 in person many times and it is not attractive at all. It is not appealing. A car should interest me from the start. If I have to convince myself that a certain design is OK, then there is no magic or excitement in the act of owning and buying the car.

The 7 is getting a poor sales response in L.A. The L.A. Times ran a story about BMW's disappointment in the initial reaction and sales.

Ugly. I've had enough time. It still is not good. What is next? If I stare at it long enough will it start to look good?

I agree with HBRAMSTEDT et al on the main points raised. I wouldn't want to buy a car to get used or even may be like its' looks during the period of ownership. I want to like what I am going to buy before I buy it. Especially since we are talking big bucks here, it's 7 series, not Ford "Kar" with its' questionable design.
One of the pleasures of buying a car is anticipating its' arrival, I am not anticipating the arrival of E60 at all. Maybe I feel curious about how bad it will be, maybe I am wondering what they are going to do with the next M5's engine, etc., but not much else.
I've just read an article in Auto Motor und Sport about BMW design and its' future, it was this article where the computer generated blue E60 5 series picture was featured. The one taken from rear 3/4 and above.
The article is depressing and isn't optimistic about anything. All the comments I've read are negative.
They also mentioned this time necessity for an acceptance of new design, the question is how much time does BMW have? Nowdays there is less and less brand loyalty than before, the trend is that of a consumerism.
On the very next page there was the first road test of the new E 320 with its' supersleek body with the Cw of only 0,26. It is as quiet at any speed as a one class higher ranking 745i. Mercedes is really going for the throat now.

I can't believe that NOBODY noticed this is NOT the pic of the new 5 series. The undisguised front is AN E65 7 SERIES!!! The only thing different from the 7 series we know now is the hood and the bumper. This must have been an earlier design that didn't make it to production. Just look at the side of the car in frontal shot and you'll see it's the 7 series. You will also notice that 5 series prototype side shot has a completely different view and protective side moldings.

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT A MAGAZINE WRITES. THIS IS NOT THE PIC OF THE NEW 5!!! Am I the only one who relizes this?

It is also clear that the 5 series' back is hevily disguised. These plastic covers are there to hide the true shape. When the 7 series spyshots came out almost everything was visible that's why I'm guessing BMW tried to hide the features of the new 5 more thoroughly.

Originally posted by Tom_K
I can't believe that NOBODY noticed this is NOT the pic of the new 5 series. The undisguised front is AN E65 7 SERIES!!! The only thing different from the 7 series we know now is the hood and the bumper. This must have been an earlier design that didn't make it to production. Just look at the side of the car in frontal shot and you'll see it's the 7 series. You will also notice that 5 series prototype side shot has a completely different view and protective side moldings.

DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT A MAGAZINE WRITES. THIS IS NOT THE PIC OF THE NEW 5!!! Am I the only one who relizes this?

It is also clear that the 5 series' back is hevily disguised. These plastic covers are there to hide the true shape. When the 7 series spyshots came out almost everything was visible that's why I'm guessing BMW tried to hide the features of the new 5 more thoroughly.

Tom,

I would watch my step if I were you, you are just a junior member here we can revoke you membership here anytime we want.....HAHA just kidding....anyway if you look at the kidney grill it's different from the seven....not to mention the car is smaller, that is a 5 series.....

Originally posted by Tom_K
I can't believe that NOBODY noticed this is NOT the pic of the new 5 series. ......DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING THAT A MAGAZINE WRITES. THIS IS NOT THE PIC OF THE NEW 5!!! Am I the only one who relizes this?

Are you talking about the Chris Bangle does the Vulcan Mind Meld with Salvador Dali styling cues? I dropped some acid last night and the pic now makes more sense...specially the oozing windshield and Silly Putty SUV. The asymmetrical frosted rear window (a new safety feature sure to be a big hit) remotely reminiscent of the X coupe is a nice touch too. There's pure genius in that picture!!!!!

Originally posted by 2001's X5/Z8


Tom,

I would watch my step if I were you, you are just a junior member here we can revoke you membership here anytime we want.....HAHA just kidding....anyway if you look at the kidney grill it's different from the seven....not to mention the car is smaller, that is a 5 series.....

Oh come on...don't play that game. We're all equals here regardless of the number of posts we have here. I respect Orangemarlin's and Tom K's opinions just as much as the next guy (meaning a lot).

That's why he said j/k Jason :)

That car appears to be the 5 to me...dash is not the same as the new 7, nor is the hood....

If you think about it, they really can't add body panels to the vehicle to make it disguised -- after all, they need to test everything, including the body.

Let's hope it IS Photoshopped, but if it isn't.....E39 Forever :D

-Chris

I didn't mean to offend anybody but I really can't see how you can say this is the new 5? All I see is a E65 7 series with a different style grille. On all the other pics the new 5 has side body moldings. If you look at the pic of "the supposed" 5 series you can so no moldings because it is actually the E65 on the pic and not the E60. Call me stupid but the car on the pic is an exact copy of the E65. Just look at the rear view mirrors or the way how the hood blends into the A-pillar. Look for these same features on the E65 and you will see it's the same car. That means that is not the new 5.

Also I find it unbelievable that BMW would go to soo much trouble disguising one car and make another prototype of the same type completely free of plastic parts that cover vital design cues. The car with an uncovered front view is the E65 and the other pics in tha article are E60. I would be glad if anyone showed me where the uncovered car differs from the E65.

well, I think Tom_K here has a point... this picture could very well be a picture of an older version of the prototype 7 series.... who knows...... he may be right... we just have to wait and see what the final product looks like....

Originally posted by atomic80


Oh come on...don't play that game. We're all equals here regardless of the number of posts we have here. I respect Orangemarlin's and Tom K's opinions just as much as the next guy (meaning a lot).


Oh my god, I was just joking......

Ok I apologise for overlooking that...but I do think that we should encourage folks to throw in their thoughts however different they may be. :D It's variety that makes this place all the more interesting after all.

All I can say is...

ORANGEMARLIN AND MENTHUSIAST ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!

HotRod

Originally posted by robret witelus
I think it's not that bad! To tell you the truth the new 7 here in Europe is selling very well. I think you guy's in the US have enough of looking at Pontiacs and all those Jap car's. That's why you are all comparing the new 7 to the American car's. hmmm I think we all should kick back and relaxs a little for a while untill we see it in the showroom. I'm going to buy it for sure, the new look of the BMW's is going to grow on us in a while.
In two years from this time we wil all be talking and comparing OUR NEW M5's to each other. hiha
:cheers:

Yet the 7 is not a sports car! This photo of the 5 is simply ugly. Period. I dont care if it has a v10 or a v12, the only way I would be caught dead driving that heap is if the price comes in under 20K. There are three necessary components to any sports car: performance, interior, and exterior. And this exterior is bad enough that 700 hp wouldn't compensate.

to car designs growing on you here is my experience:

cars I just "loved when I first saw them"

Ferrari:
every one from 1980 onward

MB every one from 1980 through the big monster S class class (forget the year and model number) Then the new S class

Lexus SC (not the convertible)

Lamborghini:
every one Ive ever seen

BMW:
Z07 (Z8)

every one

cars I thought were OK when I first saw them
BMW:
every one since 1980 with the exception of the Z07 (Z8)

cars that I have completely lost interest in today that I thought were great when I first saw them
Ferrari:
every one from 1980 onward- they all look dated with the exception of the 360 variants. Unfortunately the 550 design had always yieled yawns from me. I know some love its classic styling, but were dealing with a subjective opinion here.

MB every one from 1980 through the big monster S class class (forget the year and model number) Then the new S class. Including the new SL. I find its styling just OK. I think it will gather raves very quickly but become passe very quickly. That AMG variant also moves very quickly.

Lexus SC (not the convertible)
Lexus SC (yes the convertible). IMHO, the design is too bubbely

Lamborghini:
every one except the new (spelling?) Murceliago. Me likey that one!


cars that look better to me today than they did when I first saw them[b]
BMW:
every model, including the E65. Yes, I did not like the E39 when it first came out: too bubbely. I didnt like the E36 when it first came out: too plasticky. I didnt like the E46 when it came out: getting too big and bubbely.

MB: the old big monster S class. To me that was a MB. The new one is a kind of "MB lite" and I feel they gave in to focus groups and whereas the rear of the E65 is a bold or even bizarre styling excercise, the rear of every new MB looks like why I dont like design by committee.


[b]conclusion
at least for this guy, nearly every BMW design has had to grow on me, so letting the new design grow on me is nothing new. I actually like it. I also like a design that can grow on/ with you. I've bought cars that a year later I looked at it and thought: geez, this design isnt so good and now I dont even like it. Ive never had that with a BMW. Its always been the other way around. Which is why I give them some latitude because I have a certain amount of trust. Not blind trust. Earned trust. Maybe the E65 really is a terrible design, the anti-BMW, but to me, Im beginning to warm up to it. No doubt the technology is a breakthrough. I suppose the true test of whether the design is a hit or a miss will be to see if Lexus copies it :p

Me,

I could not have said it better myself......Not only do I agree with you on the of BMW's growing on you, but I also agree with every opinion you have on the cars stated......with the exception of the murcielago, me no likey.......:cheers:

2001's- :)

what I like about the new lambo is its very clean looks- except for the side scoops. It looks downright silly with the wings deployed though. I saw a countach the other day and it looked like a kit car. Maybe it was a kit car, I didnt look that closely.

I forgot to say that we often descend into comparing cars to other things like musicians. For me, I would much prefer to get an album that sounds a little different and maybe weird that would grow on me over time and stand up to the test of time. An example I can give you is any Beatles album or nearly any Who album. The ciritical difference is that when I first heard them becauase of my age, I knew these were considered classics already- whereas the new 7 isnt- but I didnt really like them. They sounded "old" to me. But then I began to really listen and explore what was done. They sound better and better to me now each time I listen to them. And there are modern albums like this. An example is the latest U2 album. Probably one of their finest and definately their best since Achtung Baby, and I even enjoyed their techno/pop albums, but Im glad they are back to their roots. Perhaps this is a road BMW needs to go down and in a few years they will make their "beautiful day" return?

Maybe we should think of what do we need to see in a car for it to work for us. For me, for a BMW to be a BMW here is what I need to see/know (in no particular order)

1. short as possible front and rear overhangs
2. four head lights on the front, double kidneys in the middle
3. suspension that is faster than the engine
4. an engine that has depth and "character"
5. a crappy radio :) j/k
6. no bells and whistles styling
7. a car that not only drives well but is also relatively comfortable
8. reliability and usefuleness
9. cutting edge safety (both active and passive)

writing that, I began to think about some of the criticism of the new 7. You know, when I first saw the angel eyes on the 5ers I really didnt like them. And you know what, if I was at BMW they would have never seen the light of day and still not. I know they have become popular but to me, they are just a gimmick. If those lights were on a Mitsubishi, we'd laugh at it and say, "how silly". Now, I really do like the way they look, especially on darker cars, but what purpose do they serve? In some ways, I find this more objectionable than anything styling related on the new 7!

The trunk, as bizarre as it is, supposedly it is like that for aerodynamics and space; I surely hope it isnt because someone thought it looked pretty! The lights with the eyebrow turn signals- hopefully that is for function as well. If not then I put that up higher than the angel eyes, since that looks bad and the angel eyes at least look cool.

I am off to the NYC autoshow, will provide many pictures later.

Happy holidays to all :cheers:

Trust me, they will overcome your negative reactions. This group will look deeper into the technology and be impressed. I predict there will be a long waiting line and over MSRP for the M5 will bne commonplace, especially for the V10

I agree, but I still think the mags are butt ugly. It will probably take a few years to get all the bugs fixed in this machine. In the mean time I just put in an order for a new 2002 m5 e39 lemans blue finish. It should get here in 3 months time. By the year 2005 we'll probably all raving that the new m5 is the greatest and finest car ever built: then, I'll hopefully get one.

After seeing this "NEW" M5 one makes me think that the boys over at GM's Pontiac have been brain washing the designers at BMW, seriously, whats the point of owning a Euro Grand Am that goes fast?

If i want European styling (the best) then ill buy good looking cars, not silly looking concepts

If that's the new M5, hello Porsche, hello Audi !

conclusion
at least for this guy, nearly every BMW design has had to grow on me, so letting the new design grow on me is nothing new. I actually like it. I also like a design that can grow on/ with you. [/B][/QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree more. I dont know of a single car that I did not like or dislike immediately. I liked the E39 from the day I saw it (although the new M3's are sexier). I also know of no car I outright hated and later came to like because it "grew on me." And the spy photos we've seen so far are dismal to say the very least. No, this car will not grow on me and I'm already considering what my alternatives are when I shop around for a replacement in a few years.

Ugly is ugly and on the butt-ugly meter, this car gets a full 4 cheeks.

Rather than radical jumps in its design approach, why does BMW not take Porsche's incremental design evolution but with continuing revolutionary technological leaps? This style of approach seems to fit the M5 crowd more.

Or was there such a shake-up within BMW following the Rover debacle? I heard many senior people and talented engineers left BMW....

I hope the BMW DNA will not wither away as a result.

Originally posted by UCSDxB0i
I dont like it... looks grose! looks like a Volvo! even a volvo looks better than that. YUCK!!! grrrrrrr

http://forum.dtmpower.net/images/smilies/puke.gif is RIGHT!

I second that motion.

What happened to the exhaust system?.. They only show one set of dual pipes.. Looks pretty anemic to me and that rear end needs some reworking..


lrattner
______________________

Dinan M5