The topic shouldn't be the S4. It should be the RS.4

[Gustav]

Have a look at www.rs4.org

380 HP and 0-100 km/ in 4,9 s

There we have a serious competitor that does not need any aftemarket upgrades.

[JohnH]

I cannot understand why people compare cars which are so different to each other. If its pure acceleration then pick a Caterham R500 (0-60 3.4, 0-100 8.1) at half the price or a superbike for even less or if you want a fast estate car then get an RS4. I personally wanted a high performance, manual, large 4 door saloon, large boot, comfortable, quiet, well built and not too outrageous looks wise. In this category I believe the M5 wins hands down.

[KKelly]

I also think the RS4 will be close to the same price as an M5. Chipping the RS4 will be more risky as the engine is already quite high performance. I think they use totally different turbos and a different head.

[Roman]

Doesn't anyone want to ask me what my HONEST opinion is of the S4? Gee, after all, I have put on already about 2500 miles on. Go ahead, ask away, I'll be perfectly open with you on any subject.

By the way, several tuners provide some serious chip upgrades for the car. Anywhere from 295 HP to 320 HP, with increases in torque of up to 375 ftlbs. If I am not mistaken, the M5's is 369 ftlbs?

[Gustav]

OK Roman, since you want the question...

What is you honest opinion about the S4?

By the way I almost feel like this is an unneeded discussion because I know the S4 isn´t in anyway comparable to the new M5.

As I said I beated an ´99 S4 Avant with my ´94 M3 with ease. And a E39 M5 beats a ´94 M3 with ease. Also, the S4 cannot even spell to the words "fun to drive" compared with a BMW M car according to major European car magazines.

[Roman]

Of course, Gustav...you need to be condescending once again....sigh....you can't POSSIBLY (emphasizing, not yelling) be that insecure?

KKelly, the RS4 will use bigger turbos, but everything should be essentially the same (although I hear the heads mgith get "special treatment"). Oh, and I believe that the block will receive more "webbing", or higher levels of reinforcement to tolerate the increased pressure.

[KKelly]

I went and looked at one of the Audi tuner's website and it would cost $7k or more to get to the 375ft.lb. level (Stage III). However, the Stage I is a nice increase in power for very little money and I am pretty sure the warranty remains with that upgrade---depends on the dealer.

Haven't we all had this conversation before? Stock vs. stock, there is no contest. If you upgrade the S4 to match the M5 you will know be driving a $50k car not a $40k car. It will likely be more nimble and fun to drive but will also be stiffer, noisier and smaller. If you go to that level the warranty is gone.

I still think the S4 is great car but arguing about being equal to the M5 BECAUSE it can be modified is one of those discussions that has no end. The RS4 will likely be equal to the M5 in acceleration, have AWD and great grip but it will not cost much less and is still a smaller car--though at least the dog can hang out in the back.

I guess the bigger question is whether the RS4 will ever make it to the States. I heard no.

[Roman]

I think it just might make it to the states AS LONG as it is in very limited production just like the M5, probably for legal/liability reasons. As far as price is concerned, I also think it might be prohibitive to the general public, but that is the whole idea in the first place. Imagine for instance if the M5 was available to everyone, if there was no waiting line. The ramifications would be numerous, particularly from a legal standpoint in terms of liability.