E60 M5: 6-spd manual vs. SMG - US production numbers? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

cosioboy · 23rd July 2007, 17:46

Wondering if anyone has the breakdown of actual sales (and production) numbers for the E60 M5 6-speed manual vs. SMG. So since Oct 06 when the manual was released for North America, curious what the breakdown is.

50-50, or overwhelming SMG numbers

(bmw1986, perhaps you know).

It seems to me there are some good deals on left over 07 models in the 6-spd variant. Not sure if this is a result of over-supply (or under-demand) of the 6-speeds, or a flight-to-SMG consumer preference scenario.

cosioboy · 25th July 2007, 19:59

Anybody have input on this?

Groovdog · 26th July 2007, 00:05

Only org that can answer is BMWNA. Available data (which costs in many cases serious $$) does not typically track transmissions (unless there are different engine combos which with the M5 there is not). If you wanted to really pay up you could get the answer from RL Polk. Anyone out there with unfettered access to the data (I doubt it as it would typically only be bought by the car companies as cost is typically 7+ figure subscription costs)??

The answer to your question is under-demand, as I think they ultimately listened to a minority that were set on it (6 sp), many of whom avoided it because of the DSC issue (why do you think they fixed this, yep you answered your own question).

Reality is there are alot of people who prefer SMG because you can drive it automatic if you need to (this includes myself) and real sales volumes require an automatic type option (why do you think almost all sports cars are now SMG, DSG, Tiptronic, etc.) as probably 5% of Americans under 40 can drive a stick today.

cosioboy · 27th July 2007, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groovdog

Only org that can answer is BMWNA. Available data (which costs in many cases serious $$) does not typically track transmissions (unless there are different engine combos which with the M5 there is not). If you wanted to really pay up you could get the answer from RL Polk. Anyone out there with unfettered access to the data (I doubt it as it would typically only be bought by the car companies as cost is typically 7+ figure subscription costs)??

The answer to your question is under-demand, as I think they ultimately listened to a minority that were set on it (6 sp), many of whom avoided it because of the DSC issue (why do you think they fixed this, yep you answered your own question).

Reality is there are alot of people who prefer SMG because you can drive it automatic if you need to (this includes myself) and real sales volumes require an automatic type option (why do you think almost all sports cars are now SMG, DSG, Tiptronic, etc.) as probably 5% of Americans under 40 can drive a stick today.

I would have thought this figure is available to folks within the BMW organization and/or dealers, some of which are on this board, hence why I was hoping people like member bmw1986 can chime in.

It can very well be a result of under-demand. I really do think that BMW scored an own-goal not because they released the 6-spd manual, but because of the entire DSC-on issue. And the top US magazines were quick to pick that up, including Automobile Magazine and Car and Driver. If I an not mistaken, both were harsh in their write-up of the of the E60 6-speed M5 versus the E63AMG and S6. And when the car is over 0.3sec slower than its SMG counterpart, readers and buyers will frawn. In fact I think the 0-60 time on the E60 M5 6-speed was at best equal to that of the E39 M5 (4.9 secs). I think that was a big turnoff for the vast majority of crowds.

And knowing BMW wents to the parts bin of the 545/550 for sourcing of critical tranny/clutch/diff parts was another thumbs down...

gtwsdmd · 27th July 2007, 21:51

In Edmunds review of 2007 M5 6 speed vs. Audi RS4, the 0-60 time was 4.4 secs. faster than the SMG tested at 4.8 secs.

cosioboy · 27th July 2007, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtwsdmd

In Edmunds review of 2007 M5 6 speed vs. Audi RS4, the 0-60 time was 4.4 secs. faster than the SMG tested at 4.8 secs.

I find it very hard to believe the 6-speed can be faster than SMG, especially with DSC-on all the time. The conditions could have varied greatly if one test was done in the AZ heat and other in cooler dry weather.

Here is the copy of the Car and Driver article, their test yielded 4.7secs for the 6-spd M5, and note the foot note saying "Stability Control Inhibited". I am pretty sure Automobile magazine had it at 4.9secs because of the 'crippled' launch given the DSC intervention.

gtwsdmd · 27th July 2007, 23:18

well, it all depends on the road condition and the operator. Maybe they didn't use the MDM

bmw1986 · 27th July 2007, 23:44

I'm here...I can't get exact numbers, but if I ran a locate on could see how many M5's are inbound to the US in SMG/6-Speed.

bmw1986 · 27th July 2007, 23:52

Update...these numbers INCLUDED cars that are not sold and sold, cars on order, in production, in bound to the US, at the Port and at dealerships.

Total M5's in the System: 1,016

SMG: 614 Cars
6-Speed Manual: 402

Total M6 Coupes in the System:596 *

SMG: 503
6-Speed Manual: 93

Total M6 Convertibles in the System: 371 *

SMG: 315
6-Speed Manual: 56

*M6 Coupe/Convertible numbers pertain to 2007 Models Only.

cosioboy · 29th July 2007, 20:20

Thanks a bunch, bmw1986! Great source of direct information, as usual!

So it seems if we take this fairly large (over 1,000) sample as representative, the number is 60%/40% in favor if SMG. Pretty even for my expectations, thought the numbers would be a lot more skewed towards the SMG.

I actually stopped by BMW of Manhattan on Friday. Asked one of the salesmen, he said based on prior experience the SMG-to-Manual ratio of historic sales was 3:2, which is about the number you quoted. They actually had an 08 black 6-spd in the showroom, customer never took delivery. Had just about every imaginable option, other than full leather, which in my book us a must. Interior really looks 'stripped' without the full leather and alcantara headliner. I liked the new door lanels following the 08 make over, especially in the two-tone Silverstone trim.

On a somewhat related note, I remember reading in Autoweek (under the Smoking Deals section) that BMW had a 1.9% financing on M5s (could be for 07MY though), but he said they never offer discounted financing (nor above sticker pricing) on the Beast as they are a factory store.

Michael_s · 30th July 2007, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosioboy

I would have thought this figure is available to folks within the BMW organization and/or dealers, some of which are on this board, hence why I was hoping people like member bmw1986 can chime in.

It can very well be a result of under-demand. I really do think that BMW scored an own-goal not because they released the 6-spd manual, but because of the entire DSC-on issue. And the top US magazines were quick to pick that up, including Automobile Magazine and Car and Driver. If I an not mistaken, both were harsh in their write-up of the of the E60 6-speed M5 versus the E63AMG and S6. And when the car is over 0.3sec slower than its SMG counterpart, readers and buyers will frawn. In fact I think the 0-60 time on the E60 M5 6-speed was at best equal to that of the E39 M5 (4.9 secs). I think that was a big turnoff for the vast majority of crowds.

And knowing BMW wents to the parts bin of the 545/550 for sourcing of critical tranny/clutch/diff parts was another thumbs down...

Please dont take this the wrong way: Your facts are way off. The E60 M5 is MUCH faster than an E39. I dont care if its 0-60, 0-100, 0-150. I know because I have both. If you believe the mags and what you read, find an E39 owner in my area and I will race it against my E60 6MT with video. Let me know.

speedyM5 · 30th July 2007, 02:35

Are those numbers from a specific year or production to date?

23rd July 2007, 17:46	#1 (permalink)
cosioboy m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts) Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA View my 2000 M5 Carbon Black Sales Feedback: (2)	E60 M5: 6-spd manual vs. SMG - US production numbers? Wondering if anyone has the breakdown of actual sales (and production) numbers for the E60 M5 6-speed manual vs. SMG. So since Oct 06 when the manual was released for North America, curious what the breakdown is. 50-50, or overwhelming SMG numbers (bmw1986, perhaps you know). It seems to me there are some good deals on left over 07 models in the 6-spd variant. Not sure if this is a result of over-supply (or under-demand) of the 6-speeds, or a flight-to-SMG consumer preference scenario. __________________ THE WIFE *Das Beast:: Carbon Black 2000 E39 M5 Factory Love: PDC, Folding rear seats with ski bag, Black extended leather with Alcantara headliner, aluminum trim (swapped from burlwood) The Looks: Full 2001+ facelift upgrade: Euro AEs, Euro Celis taillights, steering wheel, grey instrument cluster, ACS Rooflid Spoiler The Ride: Dinan Stage III Suspension, Dinan Front Strut Tower Brace, TCD rear sway bar brackets, X5 4.8is thrust arm bushings, 275/35/18 Michelin Pilot Sports all around on rear OEM 9.5” rims SuperSprint Me:* Supersprint Headers, Supersprint Magnum exhaust, Supersprint X-pipe *Stop-and-Go: StopTech 355mm front BBK (red calipers, cross drilled rotors, Axxis Ultimates pads), Powerchip Gold 93 (v3), Dinan clutch assembly, Dinan lightened flywheel, Cold Air Intake, UFMotorsport IATS SolelyManualGear: Rogue Octane SSK with WSR, Rogue Tranny mounts, Rogue Clutch Stop, UUC illuminated aluminum shift knob The Sound: MB Quart Reference Series component speakers all around, M-Audio subs retrofit, Dension Ice>Link Plus i-Pod adapter The Light:* PIAA custom 3-watt Luxeon blue AE LEDs, Xenon/LED Interior Lighting Kit, 6000K fog HIDs, Euro rear fogs activated *Tech Gadgets:16x9 widescreen, MKIV DVD Sat Nav, Bluetooth, Valentine 1 Little extras: 35% Tint, Bimmian brushed aluminum oil cap, M5 Trunk Mat, TEC cupholder, custom ///M5 Ultimate Pedals, extra OEM staggered wheels with Pirelli SnowSport 240 winter gear, Dinan trunk insignia THE MISTRESS* Das 'other' Ubber-Beast:: 2008 Audi B7 RS4 Sprint Blue, Ivory Leather, Premium Package, Titanium Package Tinted, Valentine'd, Lidatek'ed, MTM Spacer'ed, Clear Bra'd, about to be Milltek'ed, de-resonated, de-flapped, de-badged, and most of all: De-Bangled! All-weather FUN courtesy of Quattro GmbH Let the modding begin...

26th July 2007, 00:05	#3 (permalink)
Groovdog Addicted Member (>300 posts) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Wisconsin - where M5s are rare View my 2006 Black E60 M5 Sales Feedback: (0)	Only org that can answer is BMWNA. Available data (which costs in many cases serious $$) does not typically track transmissions (unless there are different engine combos which with the M5 there is not). If you wanted to really pay up you could get the answer from RL Polk. Anyone out there with unfettered access to the data (I doubt it as it would typically only be bought by the car companies as cost is typically 7+ figure subscription costs)?? The answer to your question is under-demand, as I think they ultimately listened to a minority that were set on it (6 sp), many of whom avoided it because of the DSC issue (why do you think they fixed this, yep you answered your own question). Reality is there are alot of people who prefer SMG because you can drive it automatic if you need to (this includes myself) and real sales volumes require an automatic type option (why do you think almost all sports cars are now SMG, DSG, Tiptronic, etc.) as probably 5% of Americans under 40 can drive a stick today. __________________ 2006 E60 M5 - Black Sapphire Metallic - Brushed Aluminum over Black Merino extended - everything but the ski bag, 3M clear bra, 50% Huper tint, IPod mods : Evosport Pulley 2007 Cadillac Escalade (wife's car) 2004 530i - Silver Grey Metallic (gone to wherever it is lease cars go)

27th July 2007, 23:44	#8 (permalink)
bmw1986 m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts) Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA View my 07 550i aka Ten to Six in White Sales Feedback: (0)	I'm here...I can't get exact numbers, but if I ran a locate on could see how many M5's are inbound to the US in SMG/6-Speed. __________________ 07 550i White/Gray/Dark Burl Options: CWP, Steptronic, Rear Air Bags, Rear Shades, Comfort Seats, Fold Down Seats, Heated Rear Seats, Navigation, Heads Up Display, Satellite Radio, Logic 7, Real Time Traffic Born on 2/4/2007......Delivered on 3/10/2007 and driving ever since!! Mods: V1 Hardwired with Consealed Display, iPod Intergration, HUD Adjustment, K & N Airfilter w/charcoal filters removed, Highgloss Shadowline Chrome Trim on the B & C Pillars. Future Mods: AngelEye White Upgrade - Yes or No?

29th July 2007, 20:20	#10 (permalink)
cosioboy m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts) Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA View my 2000 M5 Carbon Black Sales Feedback: (2)	Thanks bmw1986 Thanks a bunch, bmw1986! Great source of direct information, as usual! So it seems if we take this fairly large (over 1,000) sample as representative, the number is 60%/40% in favor if SMG. Pretty even for my expectations, thought the numbers would be a lot more skewed towards the SMG. I actually stopped by BMW of Manhattan on Friday. Asked one of the salesmen, he said based on prior experience the SMG-to-Manual ratio of historic sales was 3:2, which is about the number you quoted. They actually had an 08 black 6-spd in the showroom, customer never took delivery. Had just about every imaginable option, other than full leather, which in my book us a must. Interior really looks 'stripped' without the full leather and alcantara headliner. I liked the new door lanels following the 08 make over, especially in the two-tone Silverstone trim. On a somewhat related note, I remember reading in Autoweek (under the Smoking Deals section) that BMW had a 1.9% financing on M5s (could be for 07MY though), but he said they never offer discounted financing (nor above sticker pricing) on the Beast as they are a factory store.

30th July 2007, 02:35	#12 (permalink)
speedyM5 Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita View my E60 M5 Black Saphire Sales Feedback: (0)	Are those numbers from a specific year or production to date? __________________ 09 Blue Devil on order 07 M5 (507hp) Black Saphire 04 SL55 (493hp) 04 H2

25th July 2007, 19:59	#2 (permalink)
cosioboy m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts) Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA View my 2000 M5 Carbon Black Sales Feedback: (2)	Anybody have input on this?

27th July 2007, 21:51	#5 (permalink)
gtwsdmd Junior Member, warming up (<31 posts) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: california View my 2007 M5 silver grey 6 speed Sales Feedback: (0)	In Edmunds review of 2007 M5 6 speed vs. Audi RS4, the 0-60 time was 4.4 secs. faster than the SMG tested at 4.8 secs.

27th July 2007, 23:18	#7 (permalink)
gtwsdmd Junior Member, warming up (<31 posts) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: california View my 2007 M5 silver grey 6 speed Sales Feedback: (0)	well, it all depends on the road condition and the operator. Maybe they didn't use the MDM

27th July 2007, 23:52	#9 (permalink)
bmw1986 m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts) Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA View my 07 550i aka Ten to Six in White Sales Feedback: (0)	Update...these numbers INCLUDED cars that are not sold and sold, cars on order, in production, in bound to the US, at the Port and at dealerships. Total M5's in the System: 1,016 SMG: 614 Cars 6-Speed Manual: 402 Total M6 Coupes in the System:596 * SMG: 503 6-Speed Manual: 93 Total M6 Convertibles in the System: 371 * SMG: 315 6-Speed Manual: 56 *M6 Coupe/Convertible numbers pertain to 2007 Models Only.