• Latest threads

    • Custom feed

      • Updates

        • YouTube




          Go Back   The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com) > BMW M5, M5 Touring, M6 and Z8 Forums > ALPINABoard.com | BMW Alpina Discussion

          ALPINABoard.com | BMW Alpina Discussion Automobile Meisterwerke - Automotive Masterpieces

          Reply
           
          LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
          Old 22nd October 2006, 10:00   #1 (permalink)
          puppypilgrim
          Member, P500, DSC On (>600)
           
          puppypilgrim's Avatar
           
          Join Date: May 2006
          Location: Vancouver, Canada
          Posts: 667
          Thanks: 12
          Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
          Send a message via Yahoo to puppypilgrim
          Installed: Clutch Stop for my Bi-Turbo

          The 1990 E34 B10 Bi-Turbo has a heavy clutch and a long pedal travel. Having researched, I decided to install a do-it-yourself (DIY) clutch stop in an effort to improve the driver's interface with the car and improve the enjoyment of the vehicle.


          WHY DO I NEED A CLUTCH STOP?
          Many cars with manual clutches are setup with long pedal travel from the factory. This is to cater to a wide variety of drivers who may or may not be sensitive to the clutch take off point or the engagement point. Another reason for the long pedal travel is to allow the engagement point of the clutch to change as the clutch wears down.

          A clutch stop is a device which restricts the travel of the clutch pedal beyond what is necessary to to change gears smoothly. This results in faster gear shifts, a lighter clutch effort due to less pedal travel, less fatigue with your left foot in stop and go traffic, and an improved driver feel as there is less wasted time and effort in monitoring the clutch engagement point waiting when releasing the clutch.

          Drivers of automatic gearboxes have no need for a clutch stop as there is no clutch pedal.


          WHAT DOES A CLUTCH STOP LOOK LIKE?
          A clutch stop normally consists of a bolt, washers and a couple of nuts. Specially made ones are available from different manufacturers. Just google "BMW clutch stop" and you will find a few.

          You can also make one for a few dollars as a DIY project. It is a very cost effective modification. In my case, I made a clutch stop from a bolt that fit the hole in the car, 2 nuts and 2 washers. I also put on a small square of self-adhesive floor saver (small carpet-like fabric which you glue to the bottom of furniture to prevent damage to the floor). Approximate cost: $2 or less. I ended making my clutch stop with existing items in my toolbox.

          Some people have used an elevator bolt with a nut very successfully. An elevator bolt is a of bolt with a large circular flat top. This is normally used on things like a fridge, stove, washer or dryer where you can raise and lower the height of the item by rotating the bolt and locking its position with a nut. Approximate cost: $5.


          Picture 1
          This is a general view of the pedal area with underdash completely removed, the side speaker unplugged, the Alpina VDO instrument sub-box removed (I replaced the aged double-sided tape mount with new velcro). The stock clutch stop is the small dot on the upper left of the clutch pedal. It looks like a white dot because I had just removed the tiny, tiny rubber factory clutch stop which allowed the pedal to almost hit the carpet. Note the tremendous amount of dirt hidden behind the dead pedal which has been removed in this picture.


          Picture 2
          Close up of empty clutch stop hole after removal of the tiny factory rubber clutch stop.


          Picture 3
          This is a general view of the DIY clutch stop. This was a prototype assembly ended up being too large and IS NOT the final one used. Unfortunately due to time restrictions, I did not photograph the actual one used in my car. However, this photo is sufficient to give you an idea of what its supposed to be.

          The final version I used consists of a smaller, shorter bolt with washers and nuts on both sides of the clutch stop hole. The piece of pinkish carpet\fabric is a thick piece of floor saver with single sided adhesive available in hardware or dollar stores for very very cheap. The black rubber cap is actually a rubber tip intend for the bottom of chair legs. I ended up not finding and therefore not using a rubber cap. My clutch stop just has the floor saver piece stuck to the top of the bolt. Since the clutch stop is so small and high up on the floorboard, it is for normal intents and purposes invisible to most people.


          Picture 4
          This picture shows the clutch stop bolted and secured to its factory location before the application of the floor saver. As you can see, the bolt is not very long. I had to retract the carpet to get at the space behind the clutch stop hole in order to insert a washer and bolt behind it. You have to be very careful not to drop a bolt or washer down the carpet behind the mounting hole. One tip is to slip a piece of plastic bag or cloth to form a bib behind the clutch stop hole down to the floormat in case the washer and bolt behind the stop hole slips and falls. That way it won't end up behind the carpet but will rolls down to the floor mat.


          TESTING THE CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT POINT
          - Park the car on a flat ground
          - Make sure no person or object is in front of the car. Safety first.
          - Put the gear in neutal
          - Start the car
          - Depress the clutch. You should notice the clutch pedal travel stopping sooner than before.
          - Engage first gear and keep your foot depressed. You should not feel the car moving forward at all. If the car starts moving forward, you have set the bolt too high so the clutch is already disengaging. Reduce the height of the clutch stop bolt.

          If you have the clutch stop set right, the car will absolutely not move with the clutch pedal fully depressed even if you rev the car. If you have passed this stage, then let go of the clutch pedal slowly and feel the clutch take up point (friction) and proceed to drive normally.

          Drive around to get used to the new feel. Then do some spirited driving to get used to the clutch pedal travel. Rev the engine and change gears at different rpms. If you feel the clutch not fully engaging and disengaging, adjust the clutch stop accordingly. You should be able to change gears (1st to 5th) at all rpms with no loss of smoothness - just reduced clutch pedal travel.


          HOW IT FEELS AFTER THE CLUTCH STOP IS INSTALLED
          The car shifts very smoothly and with less driver effort due to reduced clutch pedal travel. Since the shift takes less time, the driver's attention to the road is less distracted by the actions required to perform a gear change. Same for heel-and-toe downshifting and upshifting. The effort required is much less with no loss of enjoyment. We have just reduced the amount of redundant clutch pedal travel. Enjoy.
          Attached Thumbnails
          installed-clutch-stop-my-bi-turbo-img_1647.jpg   installed-clutch-stop-my-bi-turbo-img_1649.jpg   installed-clutch-stop-my-bi-turbo-img_1635.jpg   installed-clutch-stop-my-bi-turbo-img_1652.jpg  
          __________________
          1990 BMW Alpina B10-BiTurbo #37

          Last edited by puppypilgrim; 22nd October 2006 at 10:04.
          puppypilgrim is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Old 23rd October 2006, 00:23   #2 (permalink)
          JetBoy
          Member, P500 Sport, MDM on (>800)
           
          JetBoy's Avatar
           
          Join Date: Jul 2001
          Location: Spain
          Posts: 862
          Thanks: 0
          Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
          Send a message via MSN to JetBoy
          Very nicely done but the problem I see is that as the clutch wears the engage point will be modified, the pedal will need more travel, correct?
          JetBoy is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Old 23rd October 2006, 02:21   #3 (permalink)
          puppypilgrim
          Member, P500, DSC On (>600)
           
          puppypilgrim's Avatar
           
          Join Date: May 2006
          Location: Vancouver, Canada
          Posts: 667
          Thanks: 12
          Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
          Send a message via Yahoo to puppypilgrim
          It depends on how aggressive or conservative your set engagement point with the clutch stop is. The stock pedal has about 4 inches of travel. With my present setting, I think I have enough room for the stop to work even when the clutch wears down. If you set it very aggressively to being with, then you will need to shorten the stop as the clutch wears to allow the clutch to release. That is why you use an adjustable bolt not a fixed piece of metal.

          Unless you engage in highly aggressive maneuvres, the clutch on the Bi-Turbo lasts quite a while.
          __________________
          1990 BMW Alpina B10-BiTurbo #37
          puppypilgrim is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Old 24th October 2006, 04:07   #4 (permalink)
          JeffCullen
          Member, Sport: On DSC: On (>100 posts)
           
          Join Date: Feb 2005
          Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
          Posts: 133
          Thanks: 0
          Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
          Hi Victor,

          I would actually go a step further and raise the rear wheels off the ground, and see if they rotate at all with the clutch depressed and 1st gear engaged - that way you're going to know for sure if you have any clutch slip... take care of your synchros!

          --jeff
          JeffCullen is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Old 24th October 2006, 09:33   #5 (permalink)
          puppypilgrim
          Member, P500, DSC On (>600)
           
          puppypilgrim's Avatar
           
          Join Date: May 2006
          Location: Vancouver, Canada
          Posts: 667
          Thanks: 12
          Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
          Send a message via Yahoo to puppypilgrim
          OK Jeff. Wanna come over to my house watch me jack up the car by the rear diff. put it up on my 2.5 ton jackstands and rotate the tires?
          __________________
          1990 BMW Alpina B10-BiTurbo #37
          puppypilgrim is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Old 24th October 2006, 23:52   #6 (permalink)
          mill
          Addicted Member (>300 posts)
           
          mill's Avatar
           
          Join Date: Jun 2003
          Location: Switzerland
          Posts: 370
          Thanks: 0
          Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
          I had a Clutch-Stop like this in my B8, turned out I couldn't change gears, when reving >5000 rpm.

          After a Jaguar XKR was able to pass me because of that, I throwed out that piece of junk at the next Autobahn parking
          __________________
          -------------------
          Alpina B8 4.6 Coupé
          mill is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Old 25th October 2006, 03:44   #7 (permalink)
          JeffCullen
          Member, Sport: On DSC: On (>100 posts)
           
          Join Date: Feb 2005
          Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
          Posts: 133
          Thanks: 0
          Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by puppypilgrim
          OK Jeff. Wanna come over to my house watch me jack up the car by the rear diff. put it up on my 2.5 ton jackstands and rotate the tires?
          Sure!
          JeffCullen is offline  
          Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add this post to your Facebook Profile Add this post to MySpaceStumble this Post!Google Bookmark this Post!Live Bookmark this Post!
          Reply With Quote
          Reply

          Bookmarks


          Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
           
          Thread Tools Search this Thread
          Search this Thread:

          Advanced Search
          Display Modes Rate This Thread
          Rate This Thread:

          Posting Rules
          You may not post new threads
          You may not post replies
          You may not post attachments
          You may not edit your posts

          BB code is On
          Smilies are On
          [IMG] code is On
          HTML code is On
          Trackbacks are On
          Pingbacks are On
          Refbacks are On

          Similar Threads
          Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
          UUC Direct fit performance organic issues HJB1988M5 E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 270 27th August 2008 23:41
          List: Sultan of Brunei's complete car collection, no M5 but an Alpina Gustav GTBoard.com: General Sportscars 12 20th September 2007 20:14
          Living with a Supercharged M5 from Discovery Automotive bbloch1114 Off Topic Forum 238 19th August 2005 18:04
          My clutch stop broke! atomic80 E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 2 26th August 2001 20:05

          eXTReMe Tracker

          All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:08.


          Everything Copyright 2000-2008. Do not use ANYTHING from this site without written permission. All images, graphics, sound files, video files and text appearing on this web site are the exclusive property of m5board.com and are protected under international copyright laws. All images, graphics, sound files, video files and text on this site are for on-screen and on-site viewing and listening only. No part of this web site may be reproduced, copied, saved, stored, manipulated, or used in any form for personal or commercial purposes without the prior written permission of m5board.com. Use of any image or graphic as the basis for another photographic concept or illustration is a violation of the copyright. Any copyright infringement will be prosecuted to the full extent of federal and international copyright laws. M5board.com is an enthusiast board and we don't condone any dangerous activity. Our airfield events are completely safe based on years of experience, we conduct them during clear visibility with mature participants that have several years of experience with high-performance automobiles, large unobstructed run-off zones on sealed off private former military airbases and we clearly mark the braking zones. If inexperienced with high speed driving we do not recommend organizing your own event but attending a high-performance driving school. The use of the term "BMW" on this site is for reference only, and does not imply any connection between m5board.com and BMW AG or BMW North America.