Whats the going rate for a B10 BiTurbo? - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

AlpinaLooker · 4th January 2001, 20:58

I am a student in America and have long wanted to own a 89-92 Alpina B10 BiTurbo. I have just recently become of the financial status to be able to afford buying one and having it shipped into the US. I would like to know what the going rate for them in Europe is and where the best place to purchase them is. I currently own a 1995 BMW 530, but want a car with more power, a lot more. thanks to all

CarlT · 4th January 2001, 22:27

Hi AL

The prices vary a lot of course, but good 92-93s run about DM35000-50000(Age, mileage+++). I'm sure others here on the board might be able to point you in the right direction, but try www.mobile.de. Remember that D dealers include 16% sales tax in their prices that you of course are exempt since you are exporting the car.

Regards
Carl

NRL BITURBO · 6th January 2001, 23:07

Carl,

This is not strictly true. Not all cars sold by German dealers have tax (Mwst) included - so the 'deduct 16% approach to dealer pricing' will not work, unless you know that a particular car definitely has Mwst included.

There are also huge bureacratic hoops to jump through to deduct the Mwst for an export.

Regards,

Neil

Quote:

Originally posted by CarlT:
Remember that D dealers include 16% sales tax in their prices that you of course are exempt since you are exporting the car.

[This message has been edited by NRL BITURBO (edited 06 January 2001).]

NRL BITURBO · 6th January 2001, 23:22

Hello,

Have a look at http://www.autoscout24.com click on the map of Germany and enter the search parameters (Alpina etc). You will instantly see the price range of cars available TODAY. But in general, as Carl has said, prices range from DM30,000 to around DM50,000.

You have made a good choice of car - fast, stealthy, exclusive and huge fun.

Unless the car has been completely ignored in terms of servicing etc, high mileage on the Bi-Turbo is not a problem.

Most of the Bi-Turbos are sold privately and the biggest choice is in Germany (normally about half a dozen or so available at any one time).

I am living in Germany at present, and indeed, bought my own Bi-Turbo here just over 4 months ago (for a very attractive price).

The Bi-Turbo was made until 1993, although you can find some late registered 1994 vehicles available too, for your information.

If you wish any advice or assistance in the process, please get back to me.

BTW, I am nothing to do with the motor trade, I just like cars. If you would wish me to have a look at some cars for you, then I would be quite willing, subject to reimbursement of costs (Germany is quite a big place (in European terms) and fuel costs are about 400% higher than in the USA).

Regards,

Neil
(B10 Bi-Turbo: 1990 No 0138)

[This message has been edited by NRL BITURBO (edited 06 January 2001).]

CarlT · 7th January 2001, 02:38

Hi Neil

Thanks for the additional info regarding the MwST thingy. I assume the tax issue may also be relative to the cars age? Last time I bought a car in Germany it was very easy, pay the dealer with no tax, slap on those special export plates and I was on my way to the border. Has something changed maybe? Where in Germany are you located Neil, did I see you mention Munchen in one of your previous posts...? I'm currently scouting out some different cars, and more contacts in Germany is always a good thing.

Regards
Carl

NRL BITURBO · 7th January 2001, 14:24

Hello Carl,

You were almost right, I am near Mönchengladbach (Nord Rhein Westfalia), rather than Munchen.

The tax thing/procedures re export is not too bad, but remember that you did it (it seems) in person - always much easier. Because 'AlpinaLooker' will be doing it by remote control, that is why I mentioned the hoops to jump through (paperwork, copies of passport, delays in post etc etc). Having said that, many other European countries have similar procedures, but Germany does seem to excel at bureacracy (this is not a dig, merely a factual observation).

The 16% MwSt (or Value Added Tax (VAT) to give it its English name) that a dealer charges (or not) seems to be linked to the source of the car, rather than the age. From what I have seen, a car purchased by a dealer from a private individual (eg a trade in) does not seem to have MwSt added, but a car bought from a business (eg a company car, fleet car , pre-registered car etc) does have the MwSt added/included - this is my opinion rather than being the letter of the law. But on most dealer forecourts I have seen, I would say around a quarter to a third of the used vehicles on display do not have tax in the price.

Regards,

Neil

[This message has been edited by NRL BITURBO (edited 07 January 2001).]

CarlT · 7th January 2001, 22:00

Hi Niel

Thanks again for your lessons in German taxation.

Say hi to the Guru from me, we've spoken a couple of times over the phone and he's been most helpful in answering my Alpina questions.

Regards
Carl

raymondw · 8th January 2001, 17:56

I have imported my ///M5 from the Swiss into the EU two years ago and the paperwork you need is a T1 document. This is an international document for transporting goods between countries without having trouble in passing countries and exporting countries.

This is a document which allows you to export the car without paying taxes in the exporting country, in your case Germany with the purpose to pay the import duties and VAT in the country of destination, in your case the US.

So when the car is exported, the customs of the exporting country must open the "T1" document by stamping it after seeing the car. With this goes a realistic taxation of the value of the car. You can't fool the customs with this, since the customs in European countries do know the real value of cars.

When the car reaches it's destination, you must go to the customs and close the "T1" document by paying the import duties over the value of the car as mentioned in the "T1" document added with the total shipping costs. This must be done within a certain time after the cars arrival.

Sounds easy so far, but to garantee that import duties are paid in the country of destination, this document may only be written and authorised by shipping companies who stand bail for the customs duties.

So the best thing to do is to contact a shipping company who have experience with this kind of business. For the US you may also need other papers, but for transfering goods between two countries, a "T1" should be sufficient.

I doubt that without a "T1" document, you can import the car into the US, so you need it anyhow. With this document, you don't have to pay export taxes or VAT in Germany. So be sure of that that you don't, since it will be very difficult to get it back afterwards.

Now I want to emphasize another side of the medal and I feel I must, since there are not much Biturbos made (only 507), of which quitte a few have allready been wrecked, so I feel that I must do this to garantee that a part of our "European" heritage is saved.

Before you consider of going through with importing a B10 biturbo in the US, do some research if you can federalize such a car in the US for your purpose. I seriously doubt that the B10 biturbo will meet the current US emmision rules and if this is the case, federalizing this car will be very difficult and costly since this will require adaptations and changes to the car which I doubt that someone can do without paying hugh amounts of dollars.

Also be aware that cost of parts and maintanance is allready very high by European standards, and since no B10 biturbo has been imported into the US officially, maintaining it will be very difficult and costly.

If you think that you can oversee all potential troubles and still want to go ahead with acquiring a B10 biturbo, then I wish you all the luck (you need it) and enjoy it. It is a great car and yes, even faster than the E39 ///M5 or even a Ferrari Testarossa.

With best regards and good luck,

Raymond

aahg · 22nd January 2001, 17:22

.... on the same note... i think the Biturbo will be very difficult to import in to the USA, as I understand that it did not meet the emissions standards. i have been toying with the idea of driving my Biturbo across the USA and to do this I have been advised that I can import the car to the USA for up to 1 year as a foreign national, but after that, i would need to ensure the emissions test is passed before being able to register the car on a permanent basis...

carmel · 22nd January 2001, 20:44

Quote:

Originally posted by raymond woertman:
I have imported my ///M5 from the Swiss into the EU two years ago and the paperwork you need is a T1 document. This is an international document for transporting goods between countries without having trouble in passing countries and exporting countries.

This is a document which allows you to export the car without paying taxes in the exporting country, in your case Germany with the purpose to pay the import duties and VAT in the country of destination, in your case the US.

So when the car is exported, the customs of the exporting country must open the "T1" document by stamping it after seeing the car. With this goes a realistic taxation of the value of the car. You can't fool the customs with this, since the customs in European countries do know the real value of cars.

When the car reaches it's destination, you must go to the customs and close the "T1" document by paying the import duties over the value of the car as mentioned in the "T1" document added with the total shipping costs. This must be done within a certain time after the cars arrival.

Sounds easy so far, but to garantee that import duties are paid in the country of destination, this document may only be written and authorised by shipping companies who stand bail for the customs duties.

So the best thing to do is to contact a shipping company who have experience with this kind of business. For the US you may also need other papers, but for transfering goods between two countries, a "T1" should be sufficient.

I doubt that without a "T1" document, you can import the car into the US, so you need it anyhow. With this document, you don't have to pay export taxes or VAT in Germany. So be sure of that that you don't, since it will be very difficult to get it back afterwards.

Now I want to emphasize another side of the medal and I feel I must, since there are not much Biturbos made (only 507), of which quitte a few have allready been wrecked, so I feel that I must do this to garantee that a part of our "European" heritage is saved.

Before you consider of going through with importing a B10 biturbo in the US, do some research if you can federalize such a car in the US for your purpose. I seriously doubt that the B10 biturbo will meet the current US emmision rules and if this is the case, federalizing this car will be very difficult and costly since this will require adaptations and changes to the car which I doubt that someone can do without paying hugh amounts of dollars.

Also be aware that cost of parts and maintanance is allready very high by European standards, and since no B10 biturbo has been imported into the US officially, maintaining it will be very difficult and costly.

If you think that you can oversee all potential troubles and still want to go ahead with acquiring a B10 biturbo, then I wish you all the luck (you need it) and enjoy it. It is a great car and yes, even faster than the E39 ///M5 or even a Ferrari Testarossa.

With best regards and good luck,

Raymond

raymond,
Hello my name is dave and live in San Francisco, I currently own 2 alpina b6 2,8 a e-21 and e-30. I am having some problems with the e-21 1981 b6, Do you have any information on thesecars and know of extra parts, please let me know either way if you do or dont, thank you

dave