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post #1 of 7 Old 13th April 2004, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
london
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B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

OK, this is a report, and a final sanity check. thanks in advance for any help received.

last year I bought B6 #203 as a potential track-day/weekend car.

this should work well, because the car has power, a decent chassis and the Alpina suspension, and a better brakes/tyres combination than the standard BMW. in fact, the brake disks are 298mm, which sounds very good for such a light car. the one potential question asked by many is whether the B6 suffers from understeer due to the heavier engine (M30). especially when compared to the agile M3.

after buying the car, I put on new Michelin Pilot Sports and had a Hartge strut brace cut and rewelded to fit the car. plus a bunch of normal stuff needed to get the car up to spec, including new front and rear brake disks and pads and a front brake caliper rebuild on both sides.

BAD NEWS

I just spent the Easter weekend at the Ring, and can report that the car is not -- in street form -- anything like a decent track car (yet). my B10 Biturbo has better balance, stronger brakes (relative to its size), and sharper turn-in. I know this because I spent 3 days with my B10 BT at the Ring last summer at one of the BMW schools, and also Dave W was at the Ring over Easter with his B10 BT and he very kindly let me drive a lap in his car. so my memories are fresh.

the B6 suspension seemed hard on the road, but there is far too much sway at the Ring. this is true even with the strut brace, and without the brace I'm sure it would be worse. [however, the car IS very well balanced in slides, and is a dream to steer with the throttle when the back end starts to break loose. power cures many faults ).

the brakes just didn't survive. I drove 12 laps in one day, but never more than 2 laps in succession -- followed by cool-down drives on the local roads. but after day 1 the brake disks were warped. SERIOUS judder through the steering wheel and the brake pedal on braking. plus dark blue patches on the front brake disks.

GOOD NEWS

the engine is even better than I expected. it was built to pull the B9/B10 E28 Alpinas, and the performance in an E30 car gives the big grin.
plus it pulls the car through Hatzenbach and Adenauer Forst in 3d just like a Porsche. (OK, I know this because I caught rides in a race-prepped GT3 and a 993RS, and I was watching the shift points and tachometer VERY carefully as we drove).

the gearbox is more flexible than the Biturbo's. if you don't know it, the gearbox is a dog-leg Getrag built for a 5-series (I think). even with a poor heel-and-toe shifter like me, the car drops down one (or even two!) gears without complaint.

the engine does *NOT* make the car understeer. the understeer is there because the suspension is so soft that the car wallows in the turn. but if you get the balance right going in, the car will hold the line.

the car really wants to do better. tell me I'm crazy, but it was talking to me.

THE NEW NEWS

so I went to Ring Racing for some help on the juddering brakes. they bring out 4-piston Brembos and 323mm disks and track pads and braided lines. looks good, but the new stuff won't fit under the Alpina 16 inch wheels. so we need 17 inch wheels and different tires.

the brakes were fitted and they are awesome. kinda-like a Porsche in fact.
the 7.5x17 wheels take a bit off the acceleration - it's harder to spin them up to speed -- but with later braking I think the overall effect on the stopwatch will be positive. however, there is still a judder after 3 applications of the brakes. Ring Racing guesses that the aluminum adaptor (holds the disk to the hub) is changing shape when it heats, and will make steel adaptors for the front brakes. I will keep you all posted on whether this solves the problem.

but the soft suspension and the standard profile tires now allow the tires to rub. we rolled the inside of the rear arches a little, but it wasn't enough. even in Hatzenbach and Schwedenkreuz the tires were rubbing. I took Fuchsrore at 120 kph to avoid a grated cheese effect on the tires but the turn-in was much better on the wider front tires. Karusell wasn't even on the menu, or Pflantzgarten, but the rubbing seems to be measured in mm not cm.

what to do now? well, I've left the car at Ring Racing. tomorrow I will probably ask them to install an adjustable Bilstein suspension front and back, plus low profile sport tires (R-compound). the combination should be right to avoid tire rubbing on the arches, and tighten the suspension a lot in the corners, but not to change the ride height so that the balance is upset.

then the car will be stealth defined: a basic-looking E30 which is fast, late to brake, quick to turn, grippy in the bends, quick out of the corners, and able to cruise the motorway with CD-player and aircon while traveling to the circuit.... what's not to like?

plus, every change can be reversed (except the braided hoses) if that's desirable in the future

all should be done in 2-3 weeks. if anyone knows of any reason why these changes should not take place, speak now or forever hold your peace....

london

B10 Biturbo #445 (sold)
Fireblade 954
CBR1100 XX Blackbird (sold)
B6 3.5 #203 (sold)
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post #2 of 7 Old 13th April 2004, 09:35 AM
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Re: B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

What I really want to know is where you found affordable Internet access in Nurburg?

But seriously - I think you are on the right track and probably in the best hands in terms of suspension upgrades - there are a number of race-prepped E30 M3s from them. Also my Cup-spec 944 Turbo was built and in maintanence there (you can ask them about it - it's kind of sad at the moment with crankshaft bearing problems).

Just be aware that you are on a slippery slope of continuous upgrades...
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post #3 of 7 Old 13th April 2004, 03:37 PM
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Thumbs down Re: B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

Dave,

Good to have you along with us! The upgrades are an excellent idea, & with the help of Ring Racing, open wallet surgery will be very successful I'm sure. It's plenty quick enough...

I'm about to order either 4 pot Stop-Tech floating 332mm or 6 pot AP 348mm brakes for the front of the Bi-turbo. I just cannot enjoy the car without junking the useless Girling setup. They are expensive however and won't come without much pain.

Dave.

PS Saw a lovely B8 in Alpina Blue with either Swiss or Austrian plates - absolutely gorgeous with only 50,000 kms. Anyone here?
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post #4 of 7 Old 13th April 2004, 07:18 PM
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Re: B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Dave,

Good to have you along with us! The upgrades are an excellent idea, & with the help of Ring Racing, open wallet surgery will be very successful I'm sure. It's plenty quick enough...

I'm about to order either 4 pot Stop-Tech floating 332mm or 6 pot AP 348mm brakes for the front of the Bi-turbo. I just cannot enjoy the car without junking the useless Girling setup. They are expensive however and won't come without much pain.

Dave.

PS Saw a lovely B8 in Alpina Blue with either Swiss or Austrian plates - absolutely gorgeous with only 50,000 kms. Anyone here?
dave what colour is your bi-turbo,if it is macau blue do you remember getting flashed this weekend by a blue supra at the ring...

shes alpina blue with two turbos and kills m5s her name is m5 killer...then theres hartge e30 cab with a monster engine her name is bird and shes a naughty girl. then theres the other cabrio the 320 clk jasper blue with every extra available. oh yes and the 4x4 cossie she only comes out for a laugh.....and weve now got bird2 shes got 470 horses two turbos and is japanese (SUPRA)......also being added R1 yamaha and a monster 4wd japanese killer just for fun in the mountainsalso just added to the fleet is a 2002 porsche 996tt in silver full options and auto with the old tip-tronicjust arrived vw touareg v10 tdi diamond black, fully loaded tiptronic with 22" rims. just arrived gunmetal grey toyota celica gt4 2.0 turbo 4wd 360 bhp with t4 turbo, running out of space for cars, RS4 CABRIOLET IN PHANTOM BLACK JUST LANDED
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post #5 of 7 Old 13th April 2004, 08:23 PM
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Re: B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

Hi M5K,

In truth got flashed by lots of things once the brakes had gone! And once driving from Nurburg to the Ring which puzzled me at the time!

Should have stopped by, it would have been good to meet you.

Dave.

Ps Why does the weather always clear up on the last day...
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post #6 of 7 Old 13th April 2004, 09:01 PM
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Re: B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW

PS Saw a lovely B8 in Alpina Blue with either Swiss or Austrian plates - absolutely gorgeous with only 50,000 kms. Anyone here?
not me, but Peter (alpinab846) was there with his montreal blue B8 Limo.
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post #7 of 7 Old 14th April 2004, 01:34 AM
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Re: B6 is *NOT* a track-day car (yet)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Hi M5K,

In truth got flashed by lots of things once the brakes had gone! And once driving from Nurburg to the Ring which puzzled me at the time!

Should have stopped by, it would have been good to meet you.

Dave.

Ps Why does the weather always clear up on the last day...
it wasnt on the track dave it was outside on the road is yours a k reg

shes alpina blue with two turbos and kills m5s her name is m5 killer...then theres hartge e30 cab with a monster engine her name is bird and shes a naughty girl. then theres the other cabrio the 320 clk jasper blue with every extra available. oh yes and the 4x4 cossie she only comes out for a laugh.....and weve now got bird2 shes got 470 horses two turbos and is japanese (SUPRA)......also being added R1 yamaha and a monster 4wd japanese killer just for fun in the mountainsalso just added to the fleet is a 2002 porsche 996tt in silver full options and auto with the old tip-tronicjust arrived vw touareg v10 tdi diamond black, fully loaded tiptronic with 22" rims. just arrived gunmetal grey toyota celica gt4 2.0 turbo 4wd 360 bhp with t4 turbo, running out of space for cars, RS4 CABRIOLET IN PHANTOM BLACK JUST LANDED
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