but, I also like the Alpina style. So, hope some can give me some information and help.
I am looking for a cabrio, made on the E46.
But, what to go for? The M3, the 330 or a B3S?
What is the different of the M3 and the B3S? Is alpine more a "soft" day to day car? M more a hard core track car with less comfort for the day to day use?
Also that the Alpina is to have with a automatic or manual gear box.
Oh dear the age old debate between M-cars and Alpinas...where to start.
Well yes a B3s is more easy to live with on a day to day basis mainly because of the engine characteristics, transmission choice and suspension options. Alpina's have traditionally been tuned for a more refined purchaser but that is not to say that the M-car is an un-refined one trick pony because it is most definitely not.
The B3s is a fantastic car and in day to day situations on a give and take road will not loose that much to the E46 M3 and in fact with toque curve it will cause the M3 some difficulty. it is at the top end of the performance that the major difference is seen. But and this is a big but, to make significantly faster progress in the E46 M3 you have to work far harder to extract the performance difference which as you know is not that different (338 BHP (343PS) v 305 BHP and 365 NM v 362 NM - but produced at a lower rev rate)
The other factor is the transmission choice. The B3s was available with both manual and switchtronic gearboxes while the M3 was available with manual and SMG so there are a wide range of transmission options. Switchtronic is indeed a conventional automatic but re-programmed by Alpina, which changes the characteristics including allowing engine braking and in manual mode it changes up or down at the extreme of the rev range.
There is also the way you wish to drive the car. If you are going to drive the car at 9/10's all the time then the M3 would be fine but ....most of us cannot do this so then the B3s comes into play being the more refined on a day to day basis but also having the performance fun that a normal 330 cannot match.
The B3s and the M3 are in a different league than the 330.
So you can either have a more accessible performance car in the B3s or a car that demands that you put in more effort for only a little more performance.
I understand a bit more now, what the Alpine car is and what a m car is.
I am not going to use the car as a M car all the time, wish I was able to....but in real life, I am not. Well, I am not the only one.
And, the SMG is not my type of gear. I find it so hard to use, I am a automatic man.
So, guess my new cabrio will be a B3S.
The hunt is one....and more questions will come.....
BMW4Dino good luck with your search I sure you will find the right car I think patience is the key get the right car first time.
Hasan - What I meant by having to work harder to extract any performance difference.
The E46 M3 is a fantastic car but the engines nature, which has in the past been the M - Car behaviour is to have a high revving naturally aspirated engine which is fantastic and fits the M-car character. But this means that some of the performance is only aavailable at higher revs.
So in a hard drive with a B3s, the M3 driver has to keep the revs of engine in his car in a narrower power band than the B3s driver due to the nature of both engines characteristics. If you initially look at the figures you can see that they are pretty close with the M3 driver having more power in paper:
E46 M3 (338 bhp at 7900 (red line 8500) 365 nm at 4900)
B3s (305 bhp at 6300 and 362 nm at 4800)
The crucial thing is where the torque is produced in the B3s. Around 90% of the total torque is produced by 2500 rpm which is lower in the rev range than the M3 which makes the performance of the B3s slightly easier to extract than the M3 performance.
So to make use of the extra power that the M3 driver has they have to work the engine harder to extract this extra performance. Add to this the switchtronic vs manual change and the difference on the road is surprisingly little.
Having had a practical demonstration of torque versus bhp in town following a driver who I know very well in an E60 M5 which was fit and healthy. Now on an open road where you can stretch the engine he ran away from me BUT in town it was impossible for him to shake me as to extract the maximum power he had to change gear more, rev the engine and think more about his next move more than I had to following his path even he was supprised at the ease with which my car kept up with the M5 in give and take roads. I have also had similar experiences with other more powerful but higher revving cars.
The other possibly more controversial thought is this BMW M - cars have sometimes been significantly down on the power that they have produced versus the power that they have quoted sometimes loosing as much as 10%. The other factor is that Alpina have been known to quote the worse power figure that you would get from an engine and many that have been dyno or power tested have produced significantly more than the quoted figure.
I hope this explains a little more what I was getting at, in the above information.
Cheers
Simon
Last edited by Simonal; 16th September 2009 at 14:31.
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Oh dear the age old debate between M-cars and Alpinas...where to start.
Well yes a B3s is more easy to live with on a day to day basis mainly because of the engine characteristics, transmission choice and suspension options. Alpina's have traditionally been tuned for a more refined purchaser but that is not to say that the M-car is an un-refined one trick pony because it is most definitely not.
The B3s is a fantastic car and in day to day situations on a give and take road will not loose that much to the E46 M3 and in fact with toque curve it will cause the M3 some difficulty. it is at the top end of the performance that the major difference is seen. But and this is a big but, to make significantly faster progress in the E46 M3 you have to work far harder to extract the performance difference which as you know is not that different (338 BHP (343PS) v 305 BHP and 365 NM v 362 NM - but produced at a lower rev rate)
The other factor is the transmission choice. The B3s was available with both manual and switchtronic gearboxes while the M3 was available with manual and SMG so there are a wide range of transmission options. Switchtronic is indeed a conventional automatic but re-programmed by Alpina, which changes the characteristics including allowing engine braking and in manual mode it changes up or down at the extreme of the rev range.
There is also the way you wish to drive the car. If you are going to drive the car at 9/10's all the time then the M3 would be fine but ....most of us cannot do this so then the B3s comes into play being the more refined on a day to day basis but also having the performance fun that a normal 330 cannot match.
The B3s and the M3 are in a different league than the 330.
So you can either have a more accessible performance car in the B3s or a car that demands that you put in more effort for only a little more performance.
Hi Simon ,
I have a 'deja vu' feeling about that question , except B10/M5 V8's !! haha
Simonal, good information.
I did read it over now, and got even more..heehehhe, now I understand a bit more..and are even more sure that it is a Alpine E46 I want, not a M3 on the E46.
Simonal, good information.
I did read it over now, and got even more..heehehhe, now I understand a bit more..and are even more sure that it is a Alpine E46 I want, not a M3 on the E46.
Have a good day all
E46 M3 far too common these days , like a Ford Cortina of the 70's/80's !!! haha . And driven by Boy Racers (like XR3i) .
There seems to be a theme here !!
B3/B3s much more exclusive , normally better looked after , and you can have any body shape . M3 only in Coupe & Cabrio .
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