B10 BiTurbo Brake Disc and Pads Replacement Thread

[puppypilgrim]

ALPINA B10 BITURBO (BT, Bi-Turbo) BRAKE REPLACEMENT THREAD


This thread is intended to group the main approaches to replacing the BiTurbo's brakes in one thread for ease of searching and discussion for current and future BiTurbo owners. Please discuss and add any information as you see fit.

B10 BiTurbo original size front brake discs: 332mm x 32mm. The Alpina caliper is made by Lucas-Girling and is a 4-piston cast iron caliper. The calipers are very strong. Being made of cast iron however, it retains heat during continuous hard driving. The issue has been to find a more affordable front braking solution without the cost of Alpina discs and Alpina brake pads.

There have been 3 main branches to approach to this matter:

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APPROACH 1
Replace Alpina front discs with Alpina front discs and use Mercedes Benz S500/S600 W140 (1994-1998) brake pads.

In December 2006, DaveW posted here (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...7&postcount=26) that he reverted to this solution after trying E32 840 4-Pot Brembo calipers/324mm discs from the 840 with DS2500 pads. This approach has the simplicity of retaining the stock Alpina setup and just changes the brake pads and if desired, upgrade the brake fluid to a higher quality brake fluid to reduce brake fade under hard driving. After trying various solutions, in June 2007 Cor-Jan wrote that he has also returned to using Alpina discs and Mercedes brake pads (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...7&postcount=21)

With this approach, known front brake pads are:
- EBC Red Stuff (front) DP927c USD $92.56
- Akebono Euro689 (technically for Mercedes S600 W140 1994-1998). These are low-dust ceramic brakes for European cars. There are also Ferodo, Axxis and many other choices.

You will have to replace the front brake pad sensor with a BMW one. While not confirmed, here are two to try:

1996 E38 750iL
Brake pad wear sensor up to 09/1998 34351163117
Brake pad wear sensor 2001 build date 34351165729 (same as the 740d part number)

1998 E38 740d (diesel)
Brake pad wear sensor 34351165729

If you retain the Alpina caliper, you may need to rebuild the caliper at some point. This company will rebuild the BiTurbo Lucas-Girling caliper for you. They can rebuild 'As New' and you can have them finished either in Black or yellow chromate anodised coatings. About £80.00 each plus shipping.

Classicar Automotive
Unit A Alderley Road,
Chelford,
Cheshire,
SK11 9AP, UK,
Tel: +44 1625 860910

Quattroboy (Sean) provided a caliper rebuild alternative for North Americans:

Goldline Brakes
7100 East Marginal Way South
Seattle, WA 98108
877-347-2225
http://www.goldlinebrakes.com/

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APPROACH 2
Replace Alpina front discs with BMW E38 740d or E38 750iL front discs.

The E38 740d front discs measure 334mmx 32mm which is a very close fit to the BiTurbo's 332mm x 32mm. With this setup, the stock Lucas-Girling caliper is retained. The brake pads would be Mercedes Benz S500/S600 W140 (1994-1998) brake pads. This is a cost-effective solution if 290 pounds is not affordable for the

Alpina discs. Kees writes that the E38 740d disc is the same size as the 750iL disc (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...6&postcount=18) and he is correct. I have tried to use RealOEM and can confirm that both discs have the same part numbers.

Europeans can use the following part number:
E38 740d front disc part number: 34116757756 (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...18&hg=34&fg=05)

North Americans can use the following part number:
E38 750iL front disc part number: 34116757756 (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...18&hg=34&fg=05)

You will have to replace the front brake pad sensor with a BMW one. While not confirmed, here are two to try:

1996 E38 750iL
Brake pad wear sensor up to 09/1998 34351163117
Brake pad wear sensor 2001 build date 34351165729 (same as the 740d part number)

1998 E38 740d (diesel)
Brake pad wear sensor 34351165729


Since you retain the Alpina caliper, you may need to rebuild the caliper at some point. This company will rebuild the BiTurbo Lucas-Girling caliper for you. They can rebuild 'As New' and you can have them finished either in Black or yellow chromate anodised coatings. About £80.00 each plus shipping.

Classicar Automotive
Unit A Alderley Road,
Chelford,
Cheshire,
SK11 9AP, UK,
Tel: +44 1625 860910


Quattroboy (Sean) provided a caliper rebuild alternative for North Americans:

Goldline Brakes
7100 East Marginal Way South
Seattle, WA 98108
877-347-2225
http://www.goldlinebrakes.com/


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APPROACH 3
Replace calipers and rotors entirely.

With this approach, there have been two variations:
a. Replace with a BMW model of caliper and discs
b. Replace with non-BMW calipers and discs


3a Replace with a BMW model of caliper and discs

Possible solutions include:
- calipers from the B12 5.7 Coupé, BMW 850csi or BMW M5 -95. This would allow a 345mm sized disc.

BMW 840Ci brakes on a BiTurbo?
840ci Brakes on Bi-Turbo???

BMW 850 CSI brakes and calipers on 18" wheels
Alpina Biturbo rolling road result
Brakes For Biturbo


3b Replace with non-BMW calipers and discs

Possible solutions include:

- AP Racing

- Mov-It
Breaks on the BiTurbo

- Porsche GT3


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RESEARCH THREADS for more reading:

Brake discs for B10 Biturbo
Porsche GT3 calipers onto BT?
Brake discs for B10 Biturbo
Brake question Biturbo

BMW 840Ci brakes on a BiTurbo?
840ci Brakes on Bi-Turbo???

BMW 850 CSI brakes and calipers on 18" wheels
Alpina Biturbo rolling road result

Groaning brakes
Bi-Turbo Brakes

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REAR BRAKE PADS
BMW # 34 21 1 158 221
Used on : E34 M5 3.6 (from 10/89) & 3.8 (till 06/94) / E32 750i(L) (till 01/90) Original manufactor : Jurid (Type) 547

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[BerlinThunder]

you´ve done a lot of research

thx

[puppypilgrim]

I have edited the original post with possible brake pad wear sensor numbers for the 740d (Europe) and 750iL (USA) models. I don't know if these work unless someone can confirm which wear sensors they used.

For anyone that has changed to 740d or 750iL discs, can you post the brake pad wear sensor? I have not been able to locate the wear sensor part number. Part of the reason is that the 750iL changed part numbers during a portion of their production run.

[m5 killer]

Better option is to replace the bt setup imo, kad engineering did a one off for me so they still have the exact setup for the bt and you can get the whole setup for about £1500 including the fitting, six pot calipers with 356-380mm ap disks reworked and they are grooved, ferodo pads racing or road use, i have not had any problems and these brakes have done some very hard work in their time, compared to if they had been original setup these brakes would have been in for caliper overhaul and maybe been through at least two sets of disks so it is worth while going aftermarket and will only improve the car overall as the bt brakes are a bit past their time now, were excellent for the production time of the car but not now, so when you total up the costs i think it makes economical sense as well as much better braking.

[puppypilgrim]

m5killer, will this 356mm-380mm AP discs fit the stock Alpina 17" wheels and factory offsets? Or does this setup require running a larger wheel combination?

[Chas C]

#290 is currently with my mechanic and going for the 750i rotor solution. It's not the only car I have and it doesn't get particularly hard use. I do enjoy it but it doesn't get tracked or thrashed so I didn't see the need to go silly on the brakes.

I will advise the outcome in due course...

[m5 killer]

Originally Posted by puppypilgrim

m5killer, will this 356mm-380mm AP discs fit the stock Alpina 17" wheels and factory offsets? Or does this setup require running a larger wheel combination?

you can put this setup on with the original 17" wheels and use the slightly smaller disk which i think is 340-342 and you still have the six pot caliper and the ap reworked grooved disk, when i chose my brakes it was after serious research in to every possible brake setup that was available and that includes the porsche setup, movit,ap racing and kad engineering came out on top for me, one other problem with the alpina setup is the disks warp to easy and the brake fade when the calipers get too hot, the bt setup is too fragile, too many people are looking for a cheap alternative, corners can be cut but for how long and yes it does boil down to how you drive your car. All bt owners that i know all put their cars through its paces, the car was not made to be driven like a pensioner so anybody who says they dont push their bt then they are in the wrong car, im not saying drive it like a boy racer, But ask yourself why you bought this car and why most of us still have them, the answr should bring a smile to your face, BTW THE CAR WAS MADE PERFECT BUT THE BRAKE TECHNOLOGY HAS MOVED WAY FORWARD AND AS YOU ALL KNOW THE BTS BRAKES ARE NOT UP TO THE TASK, BUT HEY EACH TO THEIR OWN

[m5 killer]

Originally Posted by Chas C

#290 is currently with my mechanic and going for the 750i rotor solution. It's not the only car I have and it doesn't get particularly hard use. I do enjoy it but it doesn't get tracked or thrashed so I didn't see the need to go silly on the brakes.

I will advise the outcome in due course...

Chas nobody here that has a bt has gone silly on their brakes they have just improved the braking performance on their bt, come on cast iron calipers.......

[puppypilgrim]

It makes sense that the stock Alpina Lucas-Girling cast iron calipers retain too much heat. In a perfect world, it would be AP Racing for me .
Nevertheless, remember that not all of us have the joy of being to drive on unrestricted autobahns or the Nordscheifle and as such cannot justify the huge expense required to go AP.

[Ferrari-Bmw]

Puppy.. THIS IS A FANTASTIC job you have done here
I am have a brake/steering problem with my car

Have just changed every sealing in the calibers front and rear,,
the front disk are almost NEW,, but the pads are not oem
put new pads in rear ((ATE)) . new fluid
I have also changed controlarm rubber and used from 750/M5/540
re-adjust the wheel setup ... also took care of the steering column,,

BUT the brakes are CRAP and the car is shaken on loads,,
I will soon take the disc off,, let a machinist take 0.1-0.5 mm off and buy a new S 600 W140 pads